What kind of bike do I want: commuting all the time edition

[dasgeh]

In an attempt to un-hijack the other thread, I’ll try to move this discussion here. The short version: I’d like a bike that I’m comfortable commuting in all weather on. My commute is currently 7-8 miles each way, and includes both Capitol Hill and Rosslyn hill (the deal breaker for “it’s kinda comfortable but not really” bikes). I have a Raleigh R500 which is comfortable to ride for a long time but (1) is not upright enough to be comfortable with limited vis (aka ski goggles) in traffic and (2) doesn’t have the clearance and braze-ons for wide tires + fenders. I haven’t ridden a lot of steel, but from what I read, that’s where I should be looking. I haven’t ridden fat tires ever, but I doubt that’s the way I’ll go. I am will to test ride them. Any bike has to be able to get me up Rosslyn hill comfortably (aka not too heavy). I can do basic bike maintenance, but would prefer not to.

I’m almost certainly going to put a back rack, full fenders and a dyna-hub on whatever bike I end up with. Flexibility to, e.g., do some touring in future years (once kids grow up) would be great.

And budget-wise, it looks like I’m going to get a windfall in the next couple months, so I’m not looking for the cheapest thing out there. I’m still an economist at heart, so I do want the best deal and don’t want to pay more than I have to just for a fancy brand.

The conversation so far (thanks everyone who chimed in):
@dasgeh 73925 wrote:

Alas, I didn’t bike to work today. […] I realized that clothing wise, I was fine to bike. But bike-wise is another matter. I have been commuting on 2 bikes: 1) my (Dad’s) Raleigh, which fits very well, but I don’t think has clearance for better tires; and 2) Raleigh Detour Deluxe, my no excuses bike. I love the Raleigh, but I must admit, it is too small for me. It’s just not comfortable enough for the 7.5 mile commute, and I end up dreading the ride home.

So on my bike to lunch (on a CaBi), I swung by BicycleSpace to see what they would recommend for a bike I could use all the time. I was steered toward the Surly Straggler, but might consider another Surly or an All-City… Any thoughts?

And I got some helpful responses:
@cyclingfool 73936 wrote:

Something of a Surly fanboy here, so I think the Straggler would be a fine choice. The Straggler is basically a Cross Check w/ disc brakes, so if you’d rather stick with rim brakes, there’s always the Cross Check as well.

My old bike was a Long Haul Trucker, which I was very partial to and miss immensely. There’s also a Disc Trucker now, if you want disc brakes.

Fitting/sizing info for both Truckers and Cross Checks here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/SurlyLHT/2pGsJfXWb6A in case they don’t have/can’t order the specific size you’d want to test ride.

Either would be good as an all around bike IMO. Straggle/CC should be a little lighter/more nimble than a Trucker if that’s important.

Can’t speak to All-City bikes.

@Riley Casey 73939 wrote:

You like Raleighs? Oh boy, oh boy you need a new, bottomless pit of a bike addiction.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/623699-For-the-love-of-English-3-speeds

@TwoWheelsDC 73940 wrote:

Straggler also comes with STI shifters, IIRC. Compared to bar ends that come standard on the Crosscheck.

@KelOnWheels 73946 wrote:

ALL-CITY!

A Surly Straggler would be awesome, actually. I want one.

But it’s basically the bike I have just with disc brakes.

But I still want one.

@vvill 73965 wrote:

Both brands focus on tough, steel, urban bikes so either would probably be good if that’s what you’re after. All-City have a bit more of a track/CX/700c focus perhaps, and don’t make any MTBs whereas Surly has a presence in all sorts of bikes. All-City’s marketing seems a bit edgier and “epic”, Surly is a bit more off-beat and quirky.

I think figure out what kind of tire clearance you want, and also if you want flat bar or dropbar and if drops – STI or barend shifters. CX-specific bikes will usually fit up to 35mm comfortably but not necessarily that much more – so that may limit your studded tire choice if you plan to get those at some point. Having disc brakes or not will also influence your options quite a bit, if you have a preference on that.

@peterw_diy 73974 wrote:

Belt drive 26er fat tire fixie will take care of you all through the zombie apocalypse.

Don’t brifters suck with gloves/mittens? So I’ve heard… Otherwise, when I go shopping I wish my Cross Check had longer chainstays, and Surly cuts the steer tubes kinda short on their “complete” builds. I’d also like less toe clip overlap. (I shoulda bought a 26er Disc Trucker.) Straggler is one of a few they bother treating for rust, the others you might want to Weigle.

[jrenaut]

I’m a big fan of my Bianchi Volpe. It’s pretty comparable to a Surly Cross Check, except it comes with brifters instead of bar-end shifters. Whether this is an improvement depends on your tastes. I don’t have a dynamo hub, but I have nice big fenders and a rear rack on mine, and while I currently have 23mm tires, the max tire size is currently constrained by the fenders, not the frame.

[DismalScientist]

You probably want a touring or cross bike. There are lots of choices available. The next step is probably to determine what specs you want before deciding the brand. Do you want disc brakes? What kind of frame? All steel? Aluminum with or without a carbon fork? Make sure the frame has rack mounts. What wheel clearance? Brifters or bar end shifters? How relaxed should the frame geometry be?

[consularrider]

One thing you said was you want more of an upright position than you have on your Raleigh R500. Just to clarify, do you have a preference then for a flat bar style or are you looking for a more relaxed fit drop bar?

If flat bar, consider the Jamis Coda Comp, cromoloy frame and carbon front fork. It has eyelets for fenders and can take a rear rack. The Coda ELITE has disc brakes, but I can’t tell from the photo if it can take a rear rack.

[mstone]

You should look for geometry and clearance for the tires you want (I’d look for 32-40 for the purposes you list), then other features like handlebar/shifter/brazeons/brakes/etc. Frame material should be at the bottom of the list of things too look at. In all honesty for a commute of that length on reasonably wide (32 or better) tires, I don’t see any particular advantage to spending the extra money on steel, unless you actually ride a few bikes and the steel one is the one that happens to fits you best. If you get really into touring that might change, but a really serious touring bike is going to have some tradeoffs that might not make a great commuter (bar end shifters, low gearing, fairly heavy). I’m not sure I’d spend money/make the tradeoffs now for something that you might do several years down the road. If you focus just on getting a good commuter, it’ll definitely make an acceptable basic touring bike at least to the point that you can figure out if you want to throw a bunch of money in that direction at some point in the future.

[83b]

I’ve lusted after everything Tout Terrain (especially one with an internal gear hub, belt-drive, and dynamo lighting).

[dasgeh]

Good points, all. I’m wedded to a material at this point.

Part of my problem is that I haven’t ridden a lot of these options, at least not in the way I’d ride a commuter.

Bars: I don’t really like flat bars, but then again, I’ve never ridden anything but the standard straight bar or the standard drop bar, and the drop bar bikes have been lots faster. So it might not be the bars, but just the relationship in my head that flat=slow.

Shifters: I’ve never ridden bar end shifters. They sound cool. But I do shift a fair amount, so maybe they’re not the best idea. NO FIXIES

Gears: I’m not the fastest rider, but I’m not the slowest either. And when I go up the Rosslyn hill, I’m on the way home to see my family, so I want to go as fast as possible. I don’t have a problem swapping a cassette. So I don’t look at that as a limiting factor for choosing a bike (unless we’re talking about an IGH). Am I crazy?

Brakes: Do I want disc brakes? I’m leaning towards yes, but I haven’t ridden with them, and don’t fully appreciate the tradeoff. My understanding: pros – better stopping in all conditions; cons – harder to swap wheels, approx $X more. I think I’m fine with cable brakes, because I can adjust cable and hydraulic is crazy expensive (right?).

Geometry: More relaxed than my road bike, so I can look around easily. But I don’t want to add many minutes to my commute, and I want to stay comfortable for at least an hour in the saddle. So not Dutch-style relaxed. I realize that’s not very helpful.

Tires/Wheels: I imagine I’ll have one set of wheels (especially if I go with disc), but a winter set of tires and a rest-of-the-year (faster) set. As far as width, again, I haven’t ridden fatter than 35s, and the fatter tires that I’ve ridden have all been on slower bikes, so in my head fat = grippy = slow. If I can get a set of tires that has good-enough-for-winter-roads traction and is fast-enough, I won’t change. Even if the answer for me is swapping tires, I’ll have to figure out the max and min width so I can get the right wheels and frame. I just don’t have an answer.

Basically, I want a table that shows various options (fat tires, disc brakes, geometry) and how much money they add to the bike and how much time they would add to my commute home. That would make my decision easy.

[dasgeh]

So re-reading my last answer, I know I have a lot of riding to do (YAY!). I like BicycleSpace because they seem to understand and cater to what I’m looking for and they’re not far from my office. Any suggestions for hills close to 7th & L NW that I could test bikes on that would be similar to Rosslyn Hill?

And are there other LBS’s that I should try? Daily Rider is on my radar but is further from both home and work for me, so all else equal, I’d like to stick with BicycleSpace.

[DismalScientist]

I don’t think anything mentioned above really affects price other than disc brakes, which will be more expensive. Bar end shifters may be a little less expensive than brifters.

Disc brakes come in both cable and hydraulic versions.

This biggest driver of price will be the quality of the wheelset, the level of the components, and the cachet associated with the brand.

Personally, if I wanted to buy a steel commuting bike without disc brakes, I would look at the Nashbar steel touring bike if I wanted brifters or the Motobecane Grand Turismo if I wanted bar end shifters. If I wanted disc brakes, I would look at a Motobecane Fantom Outlaw bike from bikesdirect. These bikes aren’t steel, but I don’t know where to find cheap steel bikes with disc brakes on the internet. Similar branded bikes would include the Surly Disc Trucker and the Raleigh Roper. The standard caveat applies for bikes offered over the internet: You should know how to do the minor required assembly including adjusting, greasing and truing if necessary and you won’t have a LBS to go to if you wish to bitch about the bike.

[cyclingfool]

As someone who has commuted with bar end shifters on drop bars for the past 2.5 years and regularly rides on street in DC, Arlington, and Alexandria, I gotta say that I don’t get why they get such a bad rap. Sure you have to take your hands off the bars/hoods to reach down to shift, but after a couple weeks, it become so automatic that I didn’t even think about it or feel it affect my balance. If you’re looking ahead and planning your actions a few seconds or more ahead of time, it’s pretty easy not to get caught stopped in the wrong gear. The couple times I did have to stop so quickly that I couldn’t downshift to the gear I wanted, I was able to easily adjust while stopped, say at a traffic light.

Additionally, as has been pointed out a couple times in the last couple days with all the cold and people wearing bulky gloves, bar end shifters have the advantage of requiring very little in the way of digital dexterity. You could easily shift gears in full on mittens when riding with bar end shifters.

IOW, I would not shy away from a bike as a commuter bike due to it having bar end shifters. In certain instances, they are even arguably preferable.

[mstone]

@dasgeh 74038 wrote:

Good points, all. I’m wedded to a material at this point.[/quote]

Well, make sure you at least test ride something else and see if you can even notice a difference. I like my steel road bike, but the aluminum do-everything with the 37mm tires is still cushier and better for practical trips.

Quote:

Bars: I don’t really like flat bars, but then again, I’ve never ridden anything but the standard straight bar or the standard drop bar, and the drop bar bikes have been lots faster. So it might not be the bars, but just the relationship in my head that flat=slow.

You need to go out and test ride some stuff. Definitely test some flat bars with bar ends. How much time do you spend in the drops vs on the hoods? In my experience, riding on the bar ends is pretty similar to riding on the hoods, and if don’t use the drops much, the deciding factor is how much time you’re spending on the flat–if you’re mostly on the hood you want drop bars with the controls optimized for that position, and if you’re on the flat you want flat bars with the controls optimized for that position. It’s not that either style locks you in, but where are you most likely to be when you want to shift or brake?

Quote:

Gears: I’m not the fastest rider, but I’m not the slowest either. And when I go up the Rosslyn hill, I’m on the way home to see my family, so I want to go as fast as possible. I don’t have a problem swapping a cassette. So I don’t look at that as a limiting factor for choosing a bike (unless we’re talking about an IGH). Am I crazy?

You’re right, up to a point. It’s fairly expensive to make radical changes to the gearing, and it’s relatively hard to get low gearing and brifters. (That’s one of the tradeoffs for getting a touring bike–they’re easiest to find with bar end controllers to get more flexibility for gearing, but that’s not [IMO] ideal for commuting.) If you go with flat bars it’s a bit easier/cheaper to just pop in whatever you want.

Quote:

Brakes: Do I want disc brakes? I’m leaning towards yes, but I haven’t ridden with them, and don’t fully appreciate the tradeoff. My understanding: pros – better stopping in all conditions; cons – harder to swap wheels, approx $X more. I think I’m fine with cable brakes, because I can adjust cable and hydraulic is crazy expensive (right?).

For a commuter I think disk brakes are a pretty no-brainer choice, though v-brakes are a reasonable choice also. Stopping power between mechanical disk and v-brakes is mostly a wash–some conditions favor one, some conditions favor the other. Disks cost more up front, rim brakes cause rim wear and you may end up spending money on wheels. (Depends how much you ride in the rain.)

Quote:

Geometry: More relaxed than my road bike, so I can look around easily. But I don’t want to add many minutes to my commute, and I want to stay comfortable for at least an hour in the saddle. So not Dutch-style relaxed. I realize that’s not very helpful.

It’s easily doable with either drop or flat bars, you just need to try riding some bikes to see what works for you.

Quote:

Basically, I want a table that shows various options (fat tires, disc brakes, geometry) and how much money they add to the bike and how much time they would add to my commute home. That would make my decision easy.

It’s not that easy.

[cyclingfool]

One other option to consider for a more upright riding position is a bike equipped with butterfly trekking bars. I have had bikes set up with these over time as well. They take MTB style shifters and brake levers and offer lots of hand positions for comfort on longer rides as well. Off hand, I know only of the Novara Safari from REI that comes with butterfly bars stock, but there may be others out there. Which reminds me, the Safari might be a good bike for you to consider, too…

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/handlebars/index.html#handlebarsup

http://www.rei.com/product/807245/novara-safari-bike-2014

[jrenaut]

If you head north from Bicycle Space, the hills start around Florida. You can take 9th and then bear left around here and then you have some options. 11th St is pretty mild, not as steep as Rosslyn. 13th is pretty short but REALLY steep. 14th is a little worse than 11th. 15th is not quite as bad as 13th. 14th is probably the closest thing to Rosslyn.

[dasgeh]

I generally ride on the hoods, mostly because I’m cautious and always want my hands on the brakes. I only use the drops during the rides that I would use my road bike for anyhow, so effectively I don’t use the drops. Good point about butterfly bars — I’ve seen them on bikes, and have always wanted to try them. I might be due for a trip to REI (especially since Santa gave me a gift certificate). I definitely need to try bar ends as well, and funky touring bikes that put brake levers so they’re accessible in different hand positions.

Thanks everyone for the advice and keep it coming!

[DismalScientist]

@cyclingfool 74047 wrote:

IOW, I would not shy away from a bike as a commuter bike due to it having bar end shifters. In certain instances, they are even arguably preferable.

In addition to the advantages cited, bar end shifters are mechanically simpler. I’ve had issues with the cables getting fouled in both my front and rear brifters.

[Author]

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