What do I need to know about wheels?

[hozn]

@Birru 169319 wrote:

Do you know anyone rocking Hunt? As far as I can tell they seem to use Novatec hubs and maybe the same OEM as Pacenti for some of the rims? I’ve been curious about some of their gravel wheel builds.

I don’t, no. I’ve read a few reviews and the specs look good. They do look like Novatec hubs, yeah.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@peterw_diy 169305 wrote:

You do crack me up. For under $300 you can get hand-built wheels from Universal Cycles with Tiagra/Deore hubs, double butted DT spokes, and the ever popular and durable Velocity Dyad rims. Switch to the classic Sun CR-18 and straight gauge spokes and it’s under $200. I’ve been riding XT/Salsa Delgado Cross from them and have been very pleased – round, even, true, no touch ups needed, and they even lined up the label with the valve hole per what must be a Velominati rule. But then I don’t break stuff anywhere near as often as you.

Just a sidebar, but most of the wheelsets on Universal Cycles like the few you mentioned are actually Quality Wheelhouse builds. IOW, they’re available from any shop that uses QBP as a distributor.

and for anyone interested in more detail, several years ago, QBP started having issues spec-ing competitively priced nicer wheelsets on their house-brand bike builds (Surly, Salsa, etc). They did a small amount of hand-built wheelsets, but not enough volume to supply wheelsets on their bikes. So, they set up a state-side wheel building operation for spec on their brand builds; machine laced but human tensioned and trued. So, almost any wheelset you see on a QBP brand bike build is available through Quality Wheelhouse (“hand built”) or QBP (“machine built”) as a stand alone wheelset/wheel.

[huskerdont]

@peterw_diy 169305 wrote:

and they even lined up the label with the valve hole per what must be a Velominati rule.

That’s Rule #40, and it’s a nice look, but now I break that rule and line the valve up with the inflation recs. I got tired of searching for the inflation pressures on various tires, and if I know it’s right on top of the valve, I know where to look.

[ChampionTier]

@huskerdont 169331 wrote:

… but now I break that rule and line the valve up with the inflation recs. I got tired of searching for the inflation pressures on various tires, and if I know it’s right on top of the valve, I know where to look.

That’s…actually a pretty darn good idea….

[mstone]

who cares what the sidewall inflation pressure says? it’s too high

[huskerdont]

@mstone 169337 wrote:

who cares what the sidewall inflation pressure says? it’s too high

I suppose that if we start having a conversation on preferred tire inflation, at least we aren’t discussing eBikes or arcane rule changes to a friendly winter riding competitionish. Would be a serious hijack though.

To unhijack, I’d like to say that giving someone your old wheels is a pretty awesome thing to do.

[hozn]

@Harry Meatmotor 169322 wrote:

Just a sidebar, but most of the wheelsets on Universal Cycles like the few you mentioned are actually Quality Wheelhouse builds. IOW, they’re available from any shop that uses QBP as a distributor.

and for anyone interested in more detail, several years ago, QBP started having issues spec-ing competitively priced nicer wheelsets on their house-brand bike builds (Surly, Salsa, etc). They did a small amount of hand-built wheelsets, but not enough volume to supply wheelsets on their bikes. So, they set up a state-side wheel building operation for spec on their brand builds; machine laced but human tensioned and trued. So, almost any wheelset you see on a QBP brand bike build is available through Quality Wheelhouse (“hand built”) or QBP (“machine built”) as a stand alone wheelset/wheel.

This is interesting. I assume this does *not* include Formula-hub wheelsets, then?

If it does include the Formula-hub wheelsets, then I would not consider those decently build wheels based on my 1 datapoint where spokes were not evenly tensioned [and one broke after a couple weeks of use] on OE Warbird wheels. (But the components were great so I just rebuilt the wheel.)

[Harry Meatmotor]

@hozn 169346 wrote:

This is interesting. I assume this does *not* include Formula-hub wheelsets, then?

If it does include the Formula-hub wheelsets, then I would not consider those decently build wheels based on my 1 datapoint where spokes were not evenly tensioned [and one broke after a couple weeks of use] on OE Warbird wheels. (But the components were great so I just rebuilt the wheel.)

Hard to say if those were “hand built” – the only Quality wheels with Formula hubs showing now are fat bike/Other Brother Daryl builds. What rims did they use?

Edit: should also clarify, this statement:

“So, almost any wheelset you see on a QBP brand bike build is available through Quality Wheelhouse (“hand built”) or QBP (“machine built”) as a stand alone wheelset/wheel.”

…almost any wheelset that’s not a “pre-built” from an OEM supplier, i.e., if Salsa started putting a Mavic pre-built wheelset on their bikes, those wouldn’t be available as Quality Wheelhouse brand wheels.

[hozn]

@Harry Meatmotor 169352 wrote:

Hard to say if those were “hand built” – the only Quality wheels with Formula hubs showing now are fat bike/Other Brother Daryl builds. What rims did they use?

Edit: should also clarify, this statement:

“So, almost any wheelset you see on a QBP brand bike build is available through Quality Wheelhouse (“hand built”) or QBP (“machine built”) as a stand alone wheelset/wheel.”

…almost any wheelset that’s not a “pre-built” from an OEM supplier, i.e., if Salsa started putting a Mavic pre-built wheelset on their bikes, those wouldn’t be available as Quality Wheelhouse brand wheels.

Makes sense. These were laced to DT R460db rims with double-butted spokes, so they weren’t a super budget wheelset. Hubs were branded “Salsa”, but I’m 99% sure they’re Formula hubs.

[peterw_diy]

@Harry Meatmotor 169322 wrote:

Just a sidebar, but most of the wheelsets on Universal Cycles like the few you mentioned are actually Quality Wheelhouse builds. IOW, they’re available from any shop that uses QBP as a distributor.

No, I was using their custom wheelset builder to spec from scratch, as I did years ago for my own set. Those wheels are hand built by Universal staff.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@hozn 169353 wrote:

Makes sense. These were laced to DT R460db rims with double-butted spokes, so they weren’t a super budget wheelset. Hubs were branded “Salsa”, but I’m 99% sure they’re Formula hubs.

Then those likely were “hand built”.

[jrenaut]

Reviving this thread because I’ve already broken two spokes on the wheels from TwoWheels.

Is there a good resource for teaching me about all the different parameters you can change on a wheel? For example, I know that more spokes generally means a stronger wheel. Does the rim width vary? If so, what does a relatively smaller width do compared to a larger one? What else don’t I know about wheels?

[mstone]

@jrenaut 180424 wrote:

I know that more spokes generally means a stronger wheel[/quote]
Up to a point, until the rim starts to resemble swiss cheese from all the spoke holes.

Quote:

Does the rim width vary? If so, what does a relatively smaller width do compared to a larger one?

Rim width is largely dictated by tire width, though there’s a good bit of range. Wider tends to be better in current thinking, because it facilitates lower pressures. If you have really skinny tires they won’t stretch to fit on a wide rim, and they’ll tend to blow off if you put as much pressure in them as skinny tires need. (Also, the rims’ max pressure rating may be exceeded, but by that point you’ve probably got enough other problems.) If you have really wide tires they’ll be floppy on a narrow rim (think lightbulb-shaped).

Smaller wheels are generally stronger than larger ones. You generally need fewer spokes on a smaller wheel, both because they spokes are shorter/stronger and because of the swiss-cheese effect noted earlier. A deeper rim tends to be stronger than a shallower rim.

For my do-everything bike the rear is a 36 spoke, box rim, double eyelet wheel with double butted spokes. It weighs a ton, but it’s…hmm…I think 6 or 7 years old and hasn’t needed any retruing even with loaded touring & kid hauling on some fairly rough trails. The wheel it replaced was a lighter 32 spoke version that required a good bit of fiddling (up until it got tacoed when I got hit by a car, but I don’t blame it for that).

I’d say start by defining what you want the wheel to do, to help establish parameters for your search.

[chuxtr]

@jrenaut 180424 wrote:

Reviving this thread because I’ve already broken two spokes on the wheels from TwoWheels.

Is there a good resource for teaching me about all the different parameters you can change on a wheel? For example, I know that more spokes generally means a stronger wheel. Does the rim width vary? If so, what does a relatively smaller width do compared to a larger one? What else don’t I know about wheels?

Where have you broken spokes? Front or rear? If rear, drive or non-drive side? Spoke break at the bend or at the nipple?

Generally speaking, more spokes and more spokes crossing will be a stronger wheel. A 36-spoke, 3-cross build is generally considered pretty robust. But hub type (low flange vs. large flange) and rim type (as well as type of spokes used) also come into play. Ultimately, it’s the specifics that matter. It’s entirely possible to build a relatively lightweight carbon fiber wheel with relatively low spoke count that will hold up for clydesdale riders.

Also, depends on what kind of riding, i.e., what kind of roads, you’re doing. And if you’re carrying any kind of load (besides you) on the bike.

More modern wheels are wider (internal and external) to accommodate the trend of riding wider tires. I don’t think building the rim wider makes it inherently stronger, but I’m also not a wheel design engineer.

Two reference books on wheels and wheelbuilding:

https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Wheel-3rd-Jobst-Brandt/dp/0960723668/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0

https://www.amazon.com/Art-Wheelbuilding-Reference-Neophytes-Wheelaholics/dp/0964983532/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1

[jrenaut]

@chuxtr 180426 wrote:

Where have you broken spokes? Front or rear? If rear, drive or non-drive side? Spoke break at the bend or at the nipple?

Both rear, one definitely drive side, the other I think was drive side but don’t remember. Both at the nipple. When I got the first one fixed the shop said I was on borrowed time with the wheels.

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