Question on Pedals and Shoes

[jtcallahan]

I can’t debate the performance benefits of having more contact area, but having more surface is sure a confidence booster if you are on your pedals unclipped.

@bluerider 14913 wrote:

I don’t know that I buy the LBS manager surface area agreement. Sounds like voodoo to me but enjoy your SPD purchase. I’ll stick with my less powerful pedals. Let us know how things go.

[thecyclingeconomist]

Contact surface area shouldn’t have anything to do with power transfer… that has much more to do with how much play your foot has in your shoe, how flexible the sole is, and whether there is play in the cleat-pedal interface.

I’m surprised that no-one mentioned the amount of float (free-side-to-side-movement) that the different pedals offer. I have a bad knee, and can’t run SPDs ever. They only have 7 degrees of float, and tend to feel like they lock-into a single position. I run egg-beaters on my commuter, and speedplays on my road bikes. (I have run time, look, shimano-both spd and spd-sl, frogs, and these are just the most comfortable for me.)

You can also check out bebops. The seem to be a pretty cool pedal system.

Insofar as shorts: the chamois is critical. Don’t spend less than $65MSRP, as the lower quality chamois usually break down quickly, and or they don’t have as many panels and thus don’t fit as well. Make sure also that the shorts have some sort of material to keep them in place at the thigh (most good shorts have a silicon band at the bottom to keep them from riding up on your leg.)

Good luck and god bless!

TCE (Thecyclingeconomist)

[vvill]

Agree about the float, I totally forgot about that – I have bad knees too. Also agree that the surface area shouldn’t really impact your power transfer all that much.

[QuantFail]

I guess the best thing is to try out the various pedals. I bought SPDs, and since these are my first pedals, I of course feel uncomfortable. I can’t be sure if this comfort level is what is to expect from road pedals, or if it is actually the pedal itself. I can only find that out by now trying out the egg-beaters. So on to trial and error.

This past weekend I went to Seneca Regional Park to ride, in my sweatpants, I will never do that again. For one, the legs of my pants were getting caught in the chain. They turned black from the grease. As if that wasn’t dangerous enough, when I would try to get off my bike at stop signs or just to practice to clip on and off, my crotch would get caught on the sea, and a few times I came very close to a face-plant. Which made me go immediately to purchase my Pearl Izumi tights from performance, they had a clearance sale, and there was one Medium left; $104.99. My Jcrew pants aren’t even that expensive (minus the suit pants). Hope they are worth it.

The other thing I learned from my ride and some youtube videos, is that the left and right shifters, shift different gears, and I don’t want to be on opposite ends on both shifters. I was creating this horrible noise when shifting, and after watching the youtube video I realized I was shifting wrong. A few people were staring at me

I am still slightly scared of going out to the open road, because most of the times I can’t clip in. Some times the pedals is inverted, but that really isn’t the problem. I just can’t place my cleat on the pedal at the correct position. I think that will correct itself with experience, and just having a feel for where the clip on the pedal is. Once I get that down I’ll attempt a road. Until then I’ll keep riding in the parks.

I have a lot more to learn, but determined to conquer this cycling thing! Thanks for all the good advice.

[jabberwocky]

@thecyclingeconomist 14960 wrote:

Insofar as shorts: the chamois is critical. Don’t spend less than $65MSRP, as the lower quality chamois usually break down quickly, and or they don’t have as many panels and thus don’t fit as well. Make sure also that the shorts have some sort of material to keep them in place at the thigh (most good shorts have a silicon band at the bottom to keep them from riding up on your leg.)

I disagree that expensive shorts are somehow necessary, at least for the majority of recreational cyclists. Obviously everyone is different, but I have a few pairs of cheap nashbar shorts that were like 15 bucks each, and they’ve held up fine for several years, and I’ve ridden them on many long rides and been happy with them.

Any bike shorts are worlds better than riding in cotton underwear.

[KLizotte]

You are trying to learn everything at once QuantFail! That’s very difficult to say the least.

You should consider having the LBS install a pair of flat pedals to give you a chance to get fully used to riding the bike first, learn how to shift properly, get used to how it behaves over different surfaces, etc. It will give you a chance to go on some long rides and get your muscles used to the bike too (you may find that you have to try out different saddles and make some minor adjustments to your bike’s setup – you want the bike to fit like a glove). You really want to be comfortable on the bike before you attempt clipless pedals. This period will also give you a chance to get your cycling wardrobe put together. (Yeah, the tights are expensive but if they fit properly they should last at least a decade of heavy use – they are also probably made with windproof material which you will find invaluable. P.S. a good windbreaker is invaluable too). It will also give you a chance to get comfortable riding in traffic, on the multi-use trails, on hills, etc.

Once you feel comfortable on the bike, I would then have straps or toe cages put on the pedals. This will allow you to get used to the feeling of your feet being attached to the pedals but are far easier to get in/out of. You will inevitably have to make some emergency stops while riding around town and these will help you get used to not panicking while attached to the pedals. PowerGrips are good for learning the sideways movement required to disengage clipless since they require the same movement to get out of the straps. They also have the advantage that one side of the pedal can be used as an ordinary flat pedal.

Then when you feel completely comfortable with the straps and/or cages and are desiring more of a connection to the bike, then I’d switch to the clipless set up. By then your feet will be more coordinated, you’ll feel weird *not* having your feet connected to the pedals, managing the bike will be second nature, your muscles will have built up to handle long rides, you’ll have worked out any bike setting kinks (e.g., stem height), etc. This way you’ll only have to concentrate on learning the clipless system and not anything else. There will be a trial and error adjustment period getting the tension right on the clipping in mechanism.

So all in all, my advice is to break the process down into component parts and think of them as a step-by-step process. We don’t want you to fall and break anything! Also, with the warmer weather coming up you’ll probably want to join some group rides and you really need to be able to handle your bike well to ride them safely. Depending on how much time you get in the saddle during this process, I’d say it could all be done in six months or so.

Good luck!

[bluerider]

@KLizotte 14991 wrote:

You are trying to learn everything at once QuantFail! That’s very difficult to say the least.

You should consider having the LBS install a pair of flat pedals to give you a chance to get fully used to riding the bike first, learn how to shift properly, get used to how it behaves over different surfaces, etc. It will give you a chance to go on some long rides and get your muscles used to the bike too (you may find that you have to try out different saddles and make some minor adjustments to your bike’s setup – you want the bike to fit like a glove). You really want to be comfortable on the bike before you attempt clipless pedals. This period will also give you a chance to get your cycling wardrobe put together. (Yeah, the tights are expensive but if they fit properly they should last at least a decade of heavy use – they are also probably made with windproof material which you will find invaluable. P.S. a good windbreaker is invaluable too). It will also give you a chance to get comfortable riding in traffic, on the multi-use trails, on hills, etc.

Once you feel comfortable on the bike, I would then have straps or toe cages put on the pedals. This will allow you to get used to the feeling of your feet being attached to the pedals but are far easier to get in/out of. You will inevitably have to make some emergency stops while riding around town and these will help you get used to not panicking while attached to the pedals. PowerGrips are good for learning the sideways movement required to disengage clipless since they require the same movement to get out of the straps. They also have the advantage that one side of the pedal can be used as an ordinary flat pedal.

Then when you feel completely comfortable with the straps and/or cages and are desiring more of a connection to the bike, then I’d switch to the clipless set up. By then your feet will be more coordinated, you’ll feel weird *not* having your feet connected to the pedals, managing the bike will be second nature, your muscles will have built up to handle long rides, you’ll have worked out any bike setting kinks (e.g., stem height), etc. This way you’ll only have to concentrate on learning the clipless system and not anything else. There will be a trial and error adjustment period getting the tension right on the clipping in mechanism.

So all in all, my advice is to break the process down into component parts and think of them as a step-by-step process. We don’t want you to fall and break anything! Also, with the warmer weather coming up you’ll probably want to join some group rides and you really need to be able to handle your bike well to ride them safely. Depending on how much time you get in the saddle during this process, I’d say it could all be done in six months or so.

Good luck!

I have to agree with everything here. It just takes a little time to get accustomed to everything. Starting with flat pedals is cheap and reasonable.

[americancyclo]

@KLizotte 14991 wrote:

Once you feel comfortable on the bike, I would then have straps or toe cages put on the pedals. This will allow you to get used to the feeling of your feet being attached to the pedals but are far easier to get in/out of.

I’d argue against toe cages or straps. I’ve found that running shoes with pedals and properly tightened toe cages are much harder to release from cleanly than any clipless solution I’ve used. There is a consistency of release with a clipless system that you can’t get with toe cages. If you can get easily out of toe cages, they’re not tight enough to be doing you any good on pedal stroke or getting used to being connected to the bike.

Everything else, I agree with, and you can always get the Shimano M324 pedal that is flat on one side and has an SPD clip on the other.

[mstone]

also the shimano a530

[thecyclingeconomist]

@jabberwocky 14990 wrote:

I disagree that expensive shorts are somehow necessary, at least for the majority of recreational cyclists. Obviously everyone is different, but I have a few pairs of cheap nashbar shorts that were like 15 bucks each, and they’ve held up fine for several years, and I’ve ridden them on many long rides and been happy with them.

Any bike shorts are worlds better than riding in cotton underwear.

I guess it depends on definition of “recreational cyclist”… I ride about 5K per year, and am definitely just a recreational cyclist. I also do agree that ANY padded cycling short is better than cotton undies. However, when you ride 40 to 60 miles on a regular basis, the difference between a cheap entry level short/chamois and a “good one” becomes light-years away from each-other…

That being said: good sales at REI, Performancebike, and nashbar (as well as sites like bonktown.com and realcyclist.com) can save you hundreds of dollars! I just make sure I’ve tried on the stuff before buying online… as sizes/fit are SO different from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Also, how you wash/dry them makes a huge difference as to the longevity of the chamois.

I love my pearl izumo P.R.O. stuff, and can say that the bibs I bought are the best I’ve ever had. However, they cost nearly as much as a friggen suit (dress suit)…

I’ve also had a pair of cheap ($30) louis garneau shorts that were adequate for commuting/rides up to about 30 miles. However, the chamois broke down within 6 months (and I always line dry.)

Just my opinion/what I’ve learned over the years…

God bless and safe cycling!

[DaveK]

@thecyclingeconomist 15056 wrote:

I guess it depends on definition of “recreational cyclist”… I ride about 5K per year, and am definitely just a recreational cyclist. I also do agree that ANY padded cycling short is better than cotton undies. However, when you ride 40 to 60 miles on a regular basis, the difference between a cheap entry level short/chamois and a “good one” becomes light-years away from each-other…

That being said: good sales at REI, Performancebike, and nashbar (as well as sites like bonktown.com and realcyclist.com) can save you hundreds of dollars! I just make sure I’ve tried on the stuff before buying online… as sizes/fit are SO different from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Also, how you wash/dry them makes a huge difference as to the longevity of the chamois.

I love my pearl izumo P.R.O. stuff, and can say that the bibs I bought are the best I’ve ever had. However, they cost nearly as much as a friggen suit (dress suit)…

I’ve also had a pair of cheap ($30) louis garneau shorts that were adequate for commuting/rides up to about 30 miles. However, the chamois broke down within 6 months (and I always line dry.)

Just my opinion/what I’ve learned over the years…

God bless and safe cycling!

Couldn’t have said it better, except to add one thing. Bib shorts are your friend. If you’re going to go ahead and dress for cycling – jerseys and spandex and whatnot – you really should wear bib shorts instead of regular shorts. You will look like an old-timey strongman until you put your jersey on but once you try bib shorts, you won’t buy anything else.

[Dirt]

@thecyclingeconomist 15056 wrote:

However, they cost nearly as much as a friggen suit (dress suit)…

You can get a dress suit at a thrift shop for under $20.

[jabberwocky]

@thecyclingeconomist 15056 wrote:

I guess it depends on definition of “recreational cyclist”… I ride about 5K per year, and am definitely just a recreational cyclist. I also do agree that ANY padded cycling short is better than cotton undies. However, when you ride 40 to 60 miles on a regular basis, the difference between a cheap entry level short/chamois and a “good one” becomes light-years away from each-other…

I’ve ridden 80-90 miles many times on my cheap nashbar shorts and been fine. I have some Performance Ultra shorts too (which retail for 80ish, though they can be found for half that on sale). They are certainly better than the cheap ones, but not massively so.

Everyone is different, obviously. I just get nervous when people start saying you NEED super expensive cycling clothing. Its one of those things that seems like an impediment to new riders.

[thecyclingeconomist]

@jabberwocky 15072 wrote:

I just get nervous when people start saying you NEED super expensive cycling clothing. Its one of those things that seems like an impediment to new riders.

Agreed: however… it does depend on rider weight too. I guess I should have mentioned that. I’m a clydesdale at my fittest (always 180+ and more like around 200lbs.) Shorts/chamois/saddles are a GIGANTIC (and primary) place where money equivocates to comfort for me. Much rather have those three be great and buy an ultegra equipped bike and have the bike weigh a whopping lb. more than a dura-ace bike and save at least a grand on the component cost. (oh yeah… I can lose a lb. easily in five days for free too.)

~TCE

[Arlingtonrider]

@americancyclo 15027 wrote:

I’d argue against toe cages or straps. I’ve found that running shoes with pedals and properly tightened toe cages are much harder to release from cleanly than any clipless solution I’ve used. There is a consistency of release with a clipless system that you can’t get with toe cages. If you can get easily out of toe cages, they’re not tight enough to be doing you any good on pedal stroke or getting used to being connected to the bike.

Everything else, I agree with, and you can always get the Shimano M324 pedal that is flat on one side and has an SPD clip on the other.

This is a reply to an old post, but I wanted to share this info in case it might be helpful to anyone. I ride with the straps on my toe cages fastened but extremely loose, per the advice of an excellent fitter at Conte’s. While the front and top of the toe cage help immensely in powering, I can still get in and out of the clips very quickly and easily. It might depend on getting the right size toe cages, including the right height for your shoe so there isn’t any up and down play, and the right length for positioning your foot properly on the pedal, for the size and type of shoes you plan to use them with. I wear womens’ size running shoes. When I had the straps tighter, before the fitting, I wasn’t getting my foot all the way forward in the clip, and that was contributing to other problems. Maybe I just got lucky in getting toe cages that fit so well, but I’m very happy with the way it’s all working out now and have no problems getting in and out of them.
(Clipless pedals and shoes weren’t a good everyday option for me because I usually mix my riding with a lot of walking, and don’t want to carry extra shoes with me for walking distances comfortably.)

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