Missed connection

[KLizotte]

Well, I was once so absentminded that I rear-ended a car! Yes, while on a bike (fortunately at very low speed). Not one of my proudest moments (it was funny though :rolleyes:).

I can see how someone travelling on the same route day after day and is experienced riding in pacelines could absentmindedly draft someone. Think of how often cars tailgate one another or manage to rear end each other at intersections or highway merges. I’ve also found myself on the George Mason bridge when I hadn’t intended to be there due to my brain being on commute autopilot.

Obviously I wasn’t there so maybe pfunk was acting weird. Irrespective of the circumstances I think simply pulling over and stopping to give him a chance to pass and move on would have been the least stressful way to handle the situation for all parties concerned.

[OneEighth]

Pfunk—don’t you ride fixed/single speed?
I ask because I get the feeling some riders don’t understand how that affects pace.
I ride fixed.
Once I spin up, what you see is pretty much what you get from there out unless there is a noticeable grade change.
What that means is that I will pass you at the same speed at which I caught up with you—can’t switch gears and hammer away, after all. It also means that I may hold off on passing even after catching up because I know the terrain is about to make you faster than me.
I offer this up only to provide some perspective.
When it comes down to it, I feel lucky to have this commute as an option—most of the things that annoy me are more a reflection of my need to chill than a serious problem in and of themselves.

[DismalScientist]

Different folks have different definitions of drafting. Sometimes when I am putzing along and someone passes me, I will speed up and follow, waiting to pass at a safe place. I am following and not drafting, but someone might get the wrong impression. Similarly, different paces in different types of terrain can cause these issues. In general, it is best not to ascribe bad motives to others when there are different possible interpretations.

Now, to the guy that was tailgating me on the MVT and 4MRT this evening: I don’t mind being drafted, but I couldn’t how close you were. I realize that you may have been taking advantage of my better lights and following me. I hope you got a good workout.. However, I was having a hard time picking out the trail with my lights and perhaps it would have been in your best interest to back off a bit more.:p

[DismalScientist]

Different folks have different definitions of drafting. Sometimes when I am putzing along and someone passes me, I will speed up and follow, waiting to pass at a safe place. I am following and not drafting, but someone might get the wrong impression. Similarly, different paces in different types of terrain can cause these issues. In general, it is best not to ascribe bad motives to others when there are different possible interpretations.

Now, to the guy that was tailgating me on the MVT and 4MRT this evening: I don’t mind being drafted, but I couldn’t tell how close you were. I realize that you may have been taking advantage of my better lights and following me. I hope you got a good workout.. However, I was having a hard time picking out the trail with my lights and perhaps it would have been in your best interest to back off a bit more.:p

[pfunkallstar]

This is fantastic, exactly why I participate in this forum.

I don’t ride a fixie but I do ride the exact same route every day, not because I have to, I just like to – it gives me a chance to think and just be alone (ironic given that this post is about NOT being alone).

Like I said, I apologize for getting up on your wheel and can certainly understand how someone could be creeped out by that, albeit I don’t think I’m a particularly creepy guy. I really am sorry, like you said “you want(ed) to have your ride” and I messed that up for you.

Have an awesome ride and I hope that you didn’t suffer from sloshy derailleur as I did this morning.

Keep on trucking!

[ShawnoftheDread]

So when does following become drafting? Anyone want to offer up a general standard?

[jnva]

@Angry Commuter 42808 wrote:

I do not need a friend; I just need to get home safely. If, however, you are lonely, might I suggest you give JNVA a call? I won’t cop to his identification (I’ve only thrown one hissy fit this year) but it sounds like you and he have a lot in common.

I don’t quite understand the hipster language that good so I’m not exactly sure what you are trying to say. But since you mentioned me I feel obligated to respond.

FWIW, when its late and I’m tired, my old eyes have a hard time seeing at night so I will follow a bike on the trail, but never right on the wheel. I got yelled at by some crazy person so I guess I won’t be doing that anymore. Just calm down people, your riding a bike for crying out loud. It’s safer than a car. Bright lights and all.

[Tim Kelley]

@ShawnoftheDread 42852 wrote:

So when does following become drafting? Anyone want to offer up a general standard?

5.10 Position Fouls.

b. Definition of Drafting Zone. The term “drafting zone” shall refer to a rectangular area seven (7) meters long and two (2) meters wide surrounding each bicycle. The longer sides of the zone begin at the leading edge of the front wheel and run backward parallel to the bicycle; the front wheel divides the short side of the zone into two equal parts. With respect to a moving motor vehicle, the “drafting zone” is a rectangular area extending 15 meters to each side of the vehicle and 30 meters behind the vehicle.

http://www.usatriathlon.org/about-multisport/rulebook.aspx

[ShawnoftheDread]

@Tim Kelley 42856 wrote:

5.10 Position Fouls.

b. Definition of Drafting Zone. The term “drafting zone” shall refer to a rectangular area seven (7) meters long and two (2) meters wide surrounding each bicycle. The longer sides of the zone begin at the leading edge of the front wheel and run backward parallel to the bicycle; the front wheel divides the short side of the zone into two equal parts. With respect to a moving motor vehicle, the “drafting zone” is a rectangular area extending 15 meters to each side of the vehicle and 30 meters behind the vehicle.

http://www.usatriathlon.org/about-multisport/rulebook.aspx

So roughly speaking, you have to stay at least 15 feet behind someone’s back wheel to avoid drafting? Yeah, that’s violated every day by every rider on the trail.

[DismalScientist]

I would say if you are 10 ft back and directly behind or less than that but offset from the bike in front, you are merely following and not sucking wheel. If you can easily avoid crashing into the front cyclist if he does something unexpected (but not crazy) you are not drafting (for trail purposes, not tri rules).

[americancyclo]

@Tim Kelley 42856 wrote:

5.10 Position Fouls.

b. Definition of Drafting Zone. The term “drafting zone” shall refer to a rectangular area seven (7) meters long and two (2) meters wide surrounding each bicycle. The longer sides of the zone begin at the leading edge of the front wheel and run backward parallel to the bicycle; the front wheel divides the short side of the zone into two equal parts. With respect to a moving motor vehicle, the “drafting zone” is a rectangular area extending 15 meters to each side of the vehicle and 30 meters behind the vehicle.

http://www.usatriathlon.org/about-multisport/rulebook.aspx

Is EVERY trail ride a triathlon? :p

If I don’t want the person in front of me to think I’m drafting, I usually hang back about two bike lengths (4 meters?)

[Amalitza]

@ShawnoftheDread 42852 wrote:

So when does following become drafting? Anyone want to offer up a general standard?

I can tell you when “following” becomes “following closely enough to make me nervous”. It’s when I check behind me in preparation of passing a ped or slower cyclist and you* are so close that I am not really sure if you’re starting to pull around to pass me or not. On a busy trail day, this can make for a stressful ride if it goes on for very long. ( and for the love of the flying spaghetti monster, if you have been just to the left of my rear wheel for the past mile or two, when you finally do decide to pass, please call your pass, so i know things are about to change. tyvm).

otoh, there are plenty of times I ride just fast enough to catch up with someone in front of me, but not quite fast enough to feel I get around them safely, so I can wind up following for quite a distance, until I either find a clear passing spot or they speed up and pull ahead of me. And I know that I’m in the “less aggressive passer” half of trail users, so I also hesitate to pass people who are riding just a tad slower than me even when I can, because they are most likely just going to pass me back (and not always very safely, imo) when I slow down for other trail traffic. Just because someone catches up to you but doesn’t immediately pass doesn’t mean they are doing it to draft or annoy you. I think most of us are just out riding our bikes.

*generic “you”, not ShawnoftheDread you. as far as i know, ShawnoftheDread you is not guilty of this

[txgoonie]

Folks, just try to remember, if you do decide to follow someone — whether you’re following with safe distance or drafting (with permission, always ask permission if you want to draft) — make sure your lights are not brighter than theirs. I think my lighting setup is on the dim side (by design — I tend to be rather conservative with my light usage). But when someone with a brighter light is behind me, it casts a shadow of myself in front of me, my eyes don’t know how to adjust, and it gets really sketchy.

[Tim Kelley]

@americancyclo 42869 wrote:

Is EVERY trail ride a triathlon? :p

If I don’t want the person in front of me to think I’m drafting, I usually hang back about two bike lengths (4 meters?)

My commute rarely takes me anywhere crowded enough to draft off anyone very long. I would usually got for 3 bike lengths as my standard non drafting distance.

Out at Hains Point though it’s kind of expected, so when someone hops on my wheel is a process of slowly ramping up the speed until they fall off, pop their calf muscle, or we’re going 32 mph down the backside.

[KelOnWheels]

@acl 42870 wrote:

otoh, there are plenty of times I ride just fast enough to catch up with someone in front of me, but not quite fast enough to feel I get around them safely, so I can wind up following for quite a distance, until I either find a clear passing spot or they speed up and pull ahead of me. And I know that I’m in the “less aggressive passer” half of trail users, so I also hesitate to pass people who are riding just a tad slower than me even when I can, because they are most likely just going to pass me back.

^^ This!

I got stuck behind two guys going REALLY slow by the airport last night but it was so freaking windy that holding a line was unpossible, and they were overlapping wheels anyway, so I didn’t feel safe passing for a looooong time. I finally wound up dropping them uphill on the first bridge/overpass thingy. (LIKE A BOSS.)

I just don’t have a lot of extra accelerationabilitynessisity* when I’m tired and fighting the wind, so I often will just slow down and hang behind someone for a while.

*Totally a word.

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