Guys – don’t shout at women

[LhasaCM]

@scoot 161026 wrote:

Thanks. That would suggest that the 24% might be a simple fraction of people, i.e. 24% of people who self-identify as cyclists are women. If so, it would not include any weighting for time spent riding or total distance traveled.

According to a People For Bikes blog post from a couple of years back (http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/new-research-on-womens-bicycling-participation-reveals-insightsand-some-sur), the 2009 National Household Travel Survey found that 24% of bicycle trips were made by women. That’s similar to a study that was done of bikeshare usage in NYC, Chicago, and Boston covering part of 2013. However, a survey from 2014 found that, of the 104 million people who rode a bike the previous year, 43% were women.

It’ll be interesting to see what comes out of the 2016 NHTS once the data is published (collected just ended, so publication is slated for early 2018).

[eminva]

I’m just gonna leave this here.

[Steve O]

@eminva 161029 wrote:

I’m just gonna leave this here.

Gallows on the green!!!!! (buh-bye, wheelsucker)

[creadinger]

@eminva 161029 wrote:

I’m just gonna leave this here.

Love the way you dropped him! What was the message there? I mean I generally hate wheel suckers too, but is that better or worse than a guy passing you ‘because you’re a girl’, then you have to pass him back because you’re actually stronger and fitter? Neither scenario is great.

As a large guy, I think I tend to draw wheel suckers to me because my draft is like a semi compared to you 100lb dudes and dudettes. After taking a break for a few minutes they always fly by me without any acknowledgement. Sad!

Lastly – what camera is that? I’ve been meaning to get a rear view.

[eminva]

@creadinger 161065 wrote:

Love the way you dropped him! What was the message there? I mean I generally hate wheel suckers too, but is that better or worse than a guy passing you ‘because you’re a girl’, then you have to pass him back because you’re actually stronger and fitter? Neither scenario is great.

It was more in the category of being slightly freaked out by someone following me who had not communicated in any way. It impacts my sense of safety. I sped up, he fell back and then worked hard to catch up. I slowed down and he bided his time behind me. I couldn’t shake him or get him to go around. In this case, it was a busy day on the trail so I was not worried, but in the dead of winter when the same headlight is right behind me for five miles, with few other cyclists or pedestrians around . . . that does worry me. I start thinking about what 7-Elevens closest to the trail are coming up.

If he said, “Hey, it was a nice day and I overdid it. I totally bonked on the way home. Can I follow you for a while?” I probably would have said, “Sure!” It’s all a matter of communicating intent.

Just FYI: I posted this on Facebook. Response from male friends was muted; a few complimented me on the drop. My female friends, cyclists but especially non-cyclists, expressed concern for my safety, describing the behavior as “creepy.”

@creadinger 161065 wrote:

As a large guy, I think I tend to draw wheel suckers to me because my draft is like a semi compared to you 100lb dudes and dudettes. After taking a break for a few minutes they always fly by me without any acknowledgement. Sad!

That is sad. They should take a turn.

@creadinger 161065 wrote:

Lastly – what camera is that? I’ve been meaning to get a rear view.

Cycliq Fly 6 — an earlier version of what they offer now.

Liz

[Vicegrip]

@eminva 161068 wrote:

It was more in the category of being slightly freaked out by someone following me who had not communicated in any way. It impacts my sense of safety. I sped up, he fell back and then worked hard to catch up. I slowed down and he bided his time behind me. I couldn’t shake him or get him to go around. In this case, it was a busy day on the trail so I was not worried, but in the dead of winter when the same headlight is right behind me for five miles, with few other cyclists or pedestrians around . . . that does worry me. I start thinking about what 7-Elevens closest to the trail are coming up.

If he said, “Hey, it was a nice day and I overdid it. I totally bonked on the way home. Can I follow you for a while?” I probably would have said, “Sure!” It’s all a matter of communicating intent.

Just FYI: I posted this on Facebook. Response from male friends was muted; a few complimented me on the drop. My female friends, cyclists but especially non-cyclists, expressed concern for my safety, describing the behavior as “creepy.”

That is sad. They should take a turn.

Cycliq Fly 6 — an earlier version of what they offer now.

Liz

Add me to the comp the drop group. That drop was priceless. Thanks for the share.

I bet a lot of the wheel suckers don’t know the bother they might cause. I can see where a guy might be annoyed by the same actions that a woman would see as creepy.
I have never ever had someone ask to draft me when they dropped in behind me. I have turned around and said “Hi” now and then and that has opened up a conversation. Early on in my adult riding one guy said hi back and then thanked me for the break from the wind as he was tapped out. That sort of set the tone for how I deal with wheel suckers. For the most part I don’t care all that much if I get a drafter unless they are tight or 1/2 wheelers. You Do Not 1/2 wheel. That said I am a 185 pound guy with a working mans physique. I can 100% see why ladies would be disturbed by a wheel sucker.
Wheel sucking has its risks too. I was riding east on the Wod and did not know I had picked up a silent sucker. I had myself a rather good sized and satisfying “gastrointestinal event” of the sort that is often done in private and down wind. Both of which I though I was at the time. About 10 seconds later I hear the Fzzzzzzz of a freewheeling hub. Look back and see a guy drifting back off my wheel.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@eminva 161029 wrote:

I’m just gonna leave this here.

Not sure how it’s 2017 and there are still guys who seem to have no awareness that this could, at the very least, be perceived as creepy, regardless of what was actually going through his head at the time. One doesn’t have to intend to create a hostile or threatening environment to actually do so. It takes like 0.5% extra brain power to consider these things as you go about your day guys…I think we can do it!

[SolarBikeCar]

@TwoWheelsDC 161083 wrote:

Not sure how it’s 2017 and there are still guys who seem to have no awareness that this could, at the very least, be perceived as creepy, regardless of what was actually going through his head at the time. One doesn’t have to intend to create a hostile or threatening environment to actually do so. It takes like 0.5% extra brain power to consider these things as you go about your day guys…I think we can do it!

The world seems pretty hostile to men if every choice is wrong. If he passes it is a dangerous pass and all men are sexists jerks for needing to show women their place. If he hangs back to let a more experienced biker set the pace he is creepy. So what to do? A segregated society with paths just for women isn’t the right approach. A culture that claims the mere presence of a man is a hostile threatening environment for women makes the environment a hostile one for men.

When driving cars we often have people follow us for miles because by focusing on just the vehicle ahead one can zone out. If the vehicle slows the follower slows because they are relying on the leader to scan ahead for dangers and set the speed. it is not intimidating until it becomes aggressive which requires active communication like horn blowing and reckless actions. Leaders who hate to be leaders either slow down or passive-aggressively use their windshield wiper spray to force followers to concentrate on driving.

This video was cut presumably to only show the close encounters, which were short. The guy was zoned out and didn’t wish to think about or expend the effort to pass. The leader who doesn’t want to be leader either stops, forcing the follower to the front, or as in this case outruns the follower.

[huskerdont]

@SolarBikeCar 161085 wrote:

The world seems pretty hostile to men if every choice is wrong. If he passes it is a dangerous pass and all men are sexists jerks for needing to show women their place. If he hangs back to let a more experienced biker set the pace he is creepy.

While I can kind of understand that viewpoint, surely you can see that those are not the only two options?

The guy did look a bit tonked rather than staring at the leader’s rear, but a bit of awareness about how your actions might be perceived goes a long way. He was right behind her for quite a long way and needed to be aware that this would be annoying at the very least and creepy/intimidating/scary at the worst.

[lordofthemark]

@SolarBikeCar 161085 wrote:

The world seems pretty hostile to men if every choice is wrong. If he passes it is a dangerous pass and all men are sexists jerks for needing to show women their place. If he hangs back to let a more experienced biker set the pace he is creepy. So what to do?

Thank you for your question. I am not the most experienced rider here, but my suggestion would be to do a SAFE pass. That means waiting for a safe spot (but since this is basically an issue where the trails are not crowded, that just means avoiding blind spots) and calling the pass, and doing it with enough room. Its generally pretty easy for a bicycle of standard width to pass another bicycle of standard width on all the trails around here.

I hope that helps.

[Vicegrip]

@huskerdont 161087 wrote:

While I can kind of understand that viewpoint, surely you can see that those are not the only two options?

The guy did look a bit tonked rather than staring at the leader’s rear, but a bit of awareness about how your actions might be perceived goes a long way. He was right behind her for quite a long way and needed to be aware that this would be annoying at the very least and creepy/intimidating/scary at the worst.

This.

Today on the ride in I rolled up on a wad-O-folks at Gallows waiting to continue West. This thread came to mind and I mentally opened my enhanced observation app. The wad rolled out just as I got there* and we all rolled through and had us a little peloton for a while. Slightly slower than I roll but too fast for me to pass a string of 6 in reasonable time. We rolled along and things sorted out when 2 bolted, one shifted back and my turn came up. No conversation was made. In this case there was a simple reason for the group to form and dissipate and I rode the wheel in front as that rider did the same to the next wheel up. Had this been a lady or single rider I would have left 2 or so bike length until the opportunity to pass came up. A mix of experience in Mup riding and some tolerance with fellow riders might be the thing rather than drastic ideas or measures.

*Don’t you just love a well timed light? All that mo-men-tum you get to bank.

[Emm]

@SolarBikeCar 161085 wrote:

The world seems pretty hostile to men if every choice is wrong. If he passes it is a dangerous pass and all men are sexists jerks for needing to show women their place. If he hangs back to let a more experienced biker set the pace he is creepy. So what to do?

You are presenting a false dilemma. This is not an either or situation. How about hang back far enough not to be a total creepy asshat (this means a few bike lengths away)? You approach and get close during the brief period required for you to prepare to pass someone. Even on crazy busy trails, I rarely if ever find myself close to another cyclist for more than a mile. If you realize due to oncoming cyclists/blind curves/etc that it might be awhile before you can pass, hang back and just chill. Or if you realize you’re going roughly the same pace, hang back, but make sure to stay a few bike lengths away so you’re not a total creeper, and can react safely if the lead cyclist does something unpredictable. If you feel like you’re bonking out and want to bike close to a stranger, say hi and ask if that’s ok.

This isn’t just something to do for women, do it for everyone so you’re not a jerk. When I’ve had people tail me for awhile I get super creeped out, but that ends when they come up and say hello (either while biking, or at a stop light). But when they creepy tail me for miles, or play leapfrog because they want to pretend to be faster than me for a few yards, I get pissed off or worried too.

[dasgeh]

@SolarBikeCar 161085 wrote:

The world seems pretty hostile to men if every choice is wrong.

Nope, you missed the point. Unsafe passes are wrong, and creepily riding really close to someone is wrong. Aside from those, as others have pointed out, you have a world of options. Say hi and don’t be a creep. Hang back a bike length or two. Pass safely and ride on. Stop and tie your shoe.

This is true whether the other rider is a man or a woman. I’ve heard from plenty of guys that they don’t like wheel suckers, too. Like women, some just aren’t racers and don’t like that sort of proximity. Some also get creeped out. Some worry that a stranger whose sucking wheel might be a sucky rider or a really tired rider, and might end up causing them to crash. Just don’t draft on trails unless (1) you are able to do so safely; (2) the conditions allow you to do so safely; and (3) the person in the front is ok with it.

The better analogy (though not great) in a car is tailgating. When that jerk is on your bumper on the interstate, it’s creepy and annoying. You shouldn’t drive on someone’s bumper.

[Anonymous]

@eminva 161068 wrote:

… in the category of being slightly freaked out by someone following me who had not communicated in any way. It impacts my sense of safety. I sped up, he fell back and then worked hard to catch up. I slowed down and he bided his time behind me. I couldn’t shake him or get him to go around.

@SolarBikeCar 161085 wrote:

The guy was zoned out and didn’t wish to think about or expend the effort to pass. The leader who doesn’t want to be leader either stops, forcing the follower to the front, or as in this case outruns the follower.

I mean, let’s not let what Liz actually experienced and described get in the way of believing something completely different happened. That’s not condescending to her AT ALL.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@SolarBikeCar 161085 wrote:

A culture that claims the mere presence of a man is a hostile threatening environment for women makes the environment a hostile one for men.

There are a lot of things that worry me about our culture…it becoming a hostile environment for men isn’t one.

[Author]

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