Cyclists breaking the law

[pfunkallstar]

@elcee 17182 wrote:

There are now traffic light controllers that can automatically track cars, bikes, and pedestrians. Gallows Road and Lee/Lynn are just crying out loudly for such systems.

http://www.aldiscorp.com/solutions/gridsmart/#product (and others)

A friend of mine used to work on traffic modeling, her take was that no matter how many data inputs you get, and no matter the granularity of that data, a lot of it still boils down to luck.

[DaveK]

@pfunkallstar 17206 wrote:

A friend of mine used to work on traffic modeling, her take was that no matter how many data inputs you get, and no matter the granularity of that data, a lot of it still boils down to luck.

This is frighteningly true.

[Terpfan]

I actually had a fellow cyclist point out to me I was breaking the law yesterday for riding on the sidewalk. Sadly, tis true, albeit because it was early morning and I hopped off the road to stop at an atm. I should have hopped off the bike and walked the short half-block distance, but seeing only two pedestrians and it’s a really wide sidewalk (down by McPherson), I rode. But I think there is a difference between cautious limited breaking of the law and full fledged running of red lights/crosswalks/etc. Then again, I guess I’m justifying my wrong to make a right.

As for following crosswalks/lights/stop signs and have very rarely not done it and usually for reason of no traffic late at night sort of situation. What’s been irking me is people passing on the left, with no calls, in between two and sometimes three people on narrow and dangerous sections of the MVT such as at the northern tip of the fence along National Airport. The room for error there is miniscule and a slight bump would send whoever is riding southbound into the GWP head on with 50-60mph traffic. It’s just this arrogant recklessness that I can’t understand.

In the city, I actually notice most people following the signage/lights. There are a few bad apples (some trying to fly by the tourists on the trails around the Washington Monument and I’m thinking either slow down or go onto the road). Recently driver-wise, I’ve noticed some backups on I Street and Metro busses are notorious with blocking the intersection there at 15th forcing the cyclists from both sides to go into the middle of the road and nearly hit each other and passing traffic to cross.

[GuyContinental]

There are some really good thoughts in here about the intent of the law (IMO safety) and how that impacts interpretation of an intersection. I have the “fortune” to hit every major crossing on the WO&D from Custis to Rt 28 on my commute. At 5:30 am there is no way that I’m going to sit at an empty Gallows Rd or Maple Ave but I’ll sit there every time at 5:30 pm (and they are indeed lonnnng). Washington/Lee I’ll run if the Lee light is red. Whiele can be pretty sketchy (and has no ped light) but seems like it is always red for cars. Sterling Blvd is plain terrifying at the wrong time of day.

As for the 32 bike stop signs on my route, I will slow (Idaho) and make eye contact/get approval with drivers before proceeding on any but the most minor crossings (those I coast, stand and look). Frankly, there are LOTS of these that should be bike yield, car stop based on the volume of travel.

All that being said, on roads, with traffic, bikes absolutely need to follow the laws so-as to be as predictable as possible. Wilson blvd at rush hour is truly the picture of cycling misbehavior.

[creadinger]

Another thing to consider is our interaction with GOOD drivers who wave us through stop signs and other intersections and developing a conditioned response.

As I approach stop signs I always slow down usually expecting to have to stop for a car or ped unless there are huge sightlines and I know it’s clear. A lot of times though, a driver who pulls up around the same time as me will wave me through so that I don’t have to stop. It’s definitely nice of them, but as this continually happens you develop a sort of conditioned response to almost expect it’s going to happen and not slow down as much as you normally would. Especially at familiar intersections, which is all of them for you daily commuters. It becomes a problem when you run into the dude who is running late for something, expecting to do the same thing as you, the only difference is he’s in a 4,000lb car.

Not sure where I’m going with this, but I was thinking about it last night. We mostly focus on the bad drivers or flaunt the law (and safety!) cyclists, but sometimes nice people can have side effects as well. It’s way too easy to fall into bad habits, especially when momentum is so important.

[CCrew]

@creadinger 17266 wrote:

Another thing to consider is our interaction with GOOD drivers who wave us through stop signs and other intersections and developing a conditioned response.

Those drivers can be dangerous as hell, sorry to say.

[jrenaut]

@CCrew 17268 wrote:

Those drivers can be dangerous as hell, sorry to say.

Yeah, I’ll never forget my mom explaining “courtesy accidents” to me, at length, over and over, as I was learning to drive.

[GuyContinental]

Some of my worst moments on a bike have come from a car in only one lane of a multi-lane road stopping; it virtually guarantees that the curb lane won’t be able to see you. I’ll usually wave them on unless the traffic break is clear. Whiele and Sterling Blvds are bad this way.

Still, if they do expect you to “play through” at least give them a friendly wave and firm eye contact.

[brendan]

@CCrew 17268 wrote:

Those drivers can be dangerous as hell, sorry to say.

It’s kind of a catch-22, though, isn’t it?

Regular drivers on signal-free/sign-free crossings (from their perspective) of the W&OD don’t particularly want to hit cyclists. Since cyclists approach quickly and some blast through the stop signs on the trail, many drivers have learned to slow down on approach and some now stop when they see a cyclist waiting/approaching, even though the car has right of way.

Which, as you say, can be dangerous for cyclists as well as drivers/passengers (see the history of GW Parkway trail crossings near Memorial Bridge). Particularly near turns or multi-lane crossings.

When one lane stops, I give courteous (where there’s trail crossing signage) and over-courteous (where there’s none) drivers some hand signals attempting to communicate that I’m waiting for both lanes of traffic going their direction to stop before I cross. Most seem to get it, I think.

Also, never wave a car on until you check to make sure there’s no one behind you or coming the other way. I saw a near disaster a few weeks back due to this.

Brendan

PS – what’s the law regarding the diamond signs indicating an uncontrolled pedestrian/bike crossing of the road? It’s just a warning to be cautious there with no obligation to stop to allow pedestrians/bikes to cross unless they are already in the crosswalk, right?

[baiskeli]

@jrenaut 17269 wrote:

Yeah, I’ll never forget my mom explaining “courtesy accidents” to me, at length, over and over, as I was learning to drive.

I hate when I coach my kids to stop and look before crossing the street, and then somebody is nice and lets us through first. Ruins the lesson.

[mstone]

@GuyContinental 17262 wrote:

Sterling Blvd is plain terrifying at the wrong time of day.

I don’t think there’s ever a time of day when someone can look at that mess and say “this was well planned”. A four lane highway with a crosswalk on it. They couldn’t even move the start of the turn lane down 50 feet so we’d have 10 feet less pavement to scurry across.

edit to add: Oh, I did forget to acknowledge that they did zig-zaggy pavement lines approaching the crosswalk, which protects pedestrians and cyclists by indicating to drivers that they’ve suddenly been transported to Europe.

[acc]

@mstone 17276 wrote:

I don’t think there’s ever a time of day when someone can look at that mess and say “this was well planned”. A four lane highway with a crosswalk on it. They couldn’t even move the start of the turn lane down 50 feet so we’d have 10 feet less pavement to scurry across.

edit to add: Oh, I did forget to acknowledge that they did zig-zaggy pavement lines approaching the crosswalk, which protects pedestrians and cyclists by indicating to drivers that they’ve suddenly been transported to Europe.

When I started to ride further from home that intersection became my turning around point. I watched a lot of cyclists go across it before I tried it. Over time I’ve become accustomed to it but I don’t like it. Just like a lot of other things, the first few times are harrowing and then you settle down, grit your teeth and do it.

[rcannon100]

Yeah, I’ll never forget my mom explaining “courtesy accidents” to me, at length, over and over, as I was learning to drive.

OH! The worst! I have kids and I am drilling it in their head – BE PREDICTABLE – FOLLOW RIGHT OF WAY. If you are “courteous” out of compliance with right of way, then you are not predictable. I have seen terrible terrible things – when someone thinks their being courteous, but cause a near miss because the other drivers cant predict, dont understand, what is going on.

Rule number one: Be predictable.

[CCrew]

@mstone 17276 wrote:

edit to add: Oh, I did forget to acknowledge that they did zig-zaggy pavement lines approaching the crosswalk, which protects pedestrians and cyclists by indicating to drivers that they’ve suddenly been transported to Europe.

Yeah, those ziggy-zaggy’s work well at Belmont Ridge Road with the almost blind curve.

[Tim Kelley]

@rcannon100 17278 wrote:

Rule number one: Be predictable.

We’d tend to agree: http://www.bikearlington.com/pages/pal-safety-on-our-streets/

[Author]

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