Chump stumper – rear derailleur

[Vicegrip]

A hanger can be bent enough to cause issues and not be visibly bent. A hanger checker in good hands is the way to tell. Sounds like 1. A mismatch between the index shifter and RD pull ratios. 2 slop in the system. 3. Something else not described but discover-able in person.

Bring it over. Much to my kids embarrassment I tend to yell “stump the chump” and general answers at the radio when I recover from laughing at/with Click and Clack the Tappet brothers.

[hozn]

I don’t think this is related, but it does look from your picture like you could probably back out your b-screw and get the RD guide wheel closer to the cogs.

I find the RD alignment tool is pretty handy. You are welcome to borrow mine if you want to swing by Westover.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@Vicegrip 159797 wrote:

A hanger can be bent enough to cause issues and not be visibly bent. A hanger checker in good hands is the way to tell. Sounds like 1. A mismatch between the index shifter and RD pull ratios. 2 slop in the system. 3. Something else not described but discover-able in person.

Bring it over. Much to my kids embarrassment I tend to yell “stump the chump” and general answers at the radio when I recover from laughing at/with Click and Clack the Tappet brothers.

My GF thinks it’s ridiculous when the caller says, “there’s a chirping noise when I…”

And I immediately start yelling, “it’s the tensioner pulley, it’s the tensioner pulley!!!”

Or, “oh yeah, ’06 Audi 1.8Ts have bad cam followers… DUH!”

Once a mechanic, always a mechanic…

[huskerdont]

@ easyrider: I installed it, each time. Always have done chains myself and have never had problems. The first one broke far away from the quick link, so it wasn’t due to some error of separating the links to shorten. The mech did question it, but looked and could see that. I think he probably also asked about chain length and crosschaining.

I don’t have the Big Blue Book, but have Todd Down’s Bicycling Maintenance Guide. I’m no real mechanic, just like to do things myself if I can, so I certainly could have done something wrong, for instance the b screw hozn mentions, which I played around with but probably don’t have right.

@ vicegrip: will PM you back.

@ hozn: I think I’m going to get a RD alignment tool, eventually. I think you’re right about the b-screw. I had put it further away because the pulley was very close to the largest cog; perhaps I got it too far away.

Rode the bike today and it shifted very nicely … without me trying to get it into the largest cog, of course.

[drevil]

@huskerdont 159810 wrote:

@ easyrider: I installed it, each time. Always have done chains myself and have never had problems. The first one broke far away from the quick link, so it wasn’t due to some error of separating the links to shorten. The mech did question it, but looked and could see that. I think he probably also asked about chain length and crosschaining.

I don’t have the Big Blue Book, but have Todd Down’s Bicycling Maintenance Guide. I’m no real mechanic, just like to do things myself if I can, so I certainly could have done something wrong, for instance the b screw hozn mentions, which I played around with but probably don’t have right.

@ vicegrip: will PM you back.

@ hozn: I think I’m going to get a RD alignment tool, eventually. I think you’re right about the b-screw. I had put it further away because the pulley was very close to the largest cog; perhaps I got it too far away.

Rode the bike today and it shifted very nicely … without me trying to get it into the largest cog, of course.

My wife was bending her rear derailleur hangers (and occasionally derailleurs) every few months, which led me to getting my very own Park DAG 2.2 (Derailleur Alignment Gauge). Now, I rarely need it. I think she’s learning to crash on her left side more…

[huskerdont]

@drevil 159815 wrote:

My wife was bending her rear derailleur hangers (and occasionally derailleurs) every few months, which led me to getting my very own Park DAG 2.2 (Derailleur Alignment Gauge). Now, I rarely need it. I think she’s learning to crash on her left side more…

By the way, I meant to comment on your earlier comment. I had not checked the stamping on the side of the chain—it’s something I can’t see without me specs. If the chain is still in the trash, I’ll check it. But whether it was a 951 or not, since I had purchased a new 971, I probably should have insisted on getting another new 971.

[ian74]

@huskerdont 159757 wrote:

Apologies that this is kinda long and involved; feel free to ignore if not your thing.

History:

.
.
.
5) Bike shop replaced chain with random, unwrapped chain pulled out of the bin, assuring me it was a SRAM 951.
6) Installed replacement chain. Bike skipped in larger 3 or 4 cogs, no matter how adjusted. Sometimes it wanted to shift on its own, and sometimes it just jumped while staying on cog.
7) Discovered that random, out-of-bin chain had a sticky link. Thanks, LBS!
Purchased new SRAM 971 chain in actual original packaging … at a different shop.
9) No longer jumps, but still tries to shift or skip in larger cogs. Sora derailleur appears to have a lot of play in it–much more than Ultegra on other bike, but not sure what’s normal for Sora.
.
.

Are you me??? I’m going through something fun like this as well! I had a chain and cassette replaced 2 weeks ago. I was having occasional skipping and there were lots of miles on them. I went with a luxurious Sun Race cassette (mistake no. 1). That thing is flimsy and flexy and I was having these same type of shifting issues, hopping multiple cogs, hanging on particular cogs and tick tick ticking. I have a deore rear der. and microshit bar ends. I went back to the shop twice and had them adjust it, and on the stand it shifted OK, but while riding it kept doing this. Yesterday went to a different shop and we tried a different cassette (SRAM), replaced the shifter cable, and the guy spent like 30 minutes trying to dial it in, seemed ok, but 2 blocks out of the shop, same problems. Hey at least it only cost me $80! (I envy anyone who can do the work themselves). He did show me that the freehub body moved the tiniest bit when he removed the cassette and said might be the issue, also said I might have to replace the whole wheel??, and he said the Sunrace cassette was properly spaced. So, two shops can’t index my rear. My solution was to set my microshift bar end to friction shifting. I guess I have to live with this, it’s not bad, but is just using the friction shifting a bypass for something that might be a serious problem? There was a couple of skips this morning when I took off from a stop at the bottom of a couple of hills. I’m hoping that’s just because I’m still getting used to friction shifting.

Let me know when you solve this! (and let me know what shop figures it out!). Good luck huskerdoug.

/end threadhijack

[huskerdont]

@ian74 159826 wrote:

Are you me??? I’m going through something fun like this as well! I had a chain and cassette replaced 2 weeks ago. I was having occasional skipping and there were lots of miles on them. I went with a luxurious Sun Race cassette (mistake no. 1). That thing is flimsy and flexy and I was having these same type of shifting issues, hopping multiple cogs, hanging on particular cogs and tick tick ticking. I have a deore rear der. and microshit bar ends. I went back to the shop twice and had them adjust it, and on the stand it shifted OK, but while riding it kept doing this. Yesterday went to a different shop and we tried a different cassette (SRAM), replaced the shifter cable, and the guy spent like 30 minutes trying to dial it in, seemed ok, but 2 blocks out of the shop, same problems. Hey at least it only cost me $80! (I envy anyone who can do the work themselves). He did show me that the freehub body moved the tiniest bit when he removed the cassette and said might be the issue, also said I might have to replace the whole wheel??, and he said the Sunrace cassette was properly spaced. So, two shops can’t index my rear. My solution was to set my microshift bar end to friction shifting. I guess I have to live with this, it’s not bad, but is just using the friction shifting a bypass for something that might be a serious problem? There was a couple of skips this morning when I took off from a stop at the bottom of a couple of hills. I’m hoping that’s just because I’m still getting used to friction shifting.

Let me know when you solve this! (and let me know what shop figures it out!). Good luck huskerdoug.

/end threadhijack

If the freehub is loose, you may be able to see the cassette “wobble” when it spins, and that wobble could cause those problems. I have had this happen. I’m surprised he didn’t tighten it while there. But I’m no expert so maybe it’s a type that isn’t easy to tighten or maybe the thing is going, esp. since he mentioned needing to replace the wheel. Good luck–you have a lot of hills on your commute and it’s frustrating when the bike skips on hills.

[anomad]

@ian74 159826 wrote:

Are you me??? I’m going through something fun like this as well! I had a chain and cassette replaced 2 weeks ago. I was having occasional skipping and there were lots of miles on them. I went with a luxurious Sun Race cassette (mistake no. 1). That thing is flimsy and flexy and I was having these same type of shifting issues, hopping multiple cogs, hanging on particular cogs and tick tick ticking. I have a deore rear der. and microshit bar ends. I went back to the shop twice and had them adjust it, and on the stand it shifted OK, but while riding it kept doing this. Yesterday went to a different shop and we tried a different cassette (SRAM), replaced the shifter cable, and the guy spent like 30 minutes trying to dial it in, seemed ok, but 2 blocks out of the shop, same problems. Hey at least it only cost me $80! (I envy anyone who can do the work themselves). He did show me that the freehub body moved the tiniest bit when he removed the cassette and said might be the issue, also said I might have to replace the whole wheel??, and he said the Sunrace cassette was properly spaced. So, two shops can’t index my rear. My solution was to set my microshift bar end to friction shifting. I guess I have to live with this, it’s not bad, but is just using the friction shifting a bypass for something that might be a serious problem? There was a couple of skips this morning when I took off from a stop at the bottom of a couple of hills. I’m hoping that’s just because I’m still getting used to friction shifting.

Let me know when you solve this! (and let me know what shop figures it out!). Good luck huskerdoug.

/end threadhijack

Any mechanic that just blindly replaces parts until its fixed should be avoided like the plague.

If it all shifted and rode ok before the first swap there’s something fishy going on. I can take a look at it next time our homeward schedules intersect.

[ian74]

@anomad 159830 wrote:

Any mechanic that just blindly replaces parts until its fixed should be avoided like the plague.

If it all shifted and rode ok before the first swap there’s something fishy going on. I can take a look at it next time our homeward schedules intersect.

Damn! Now I have to avoid myself!!!!

[anomad]

@ian74 159833 wrote:

Damn! Now I have to avoid myself!!!!

People avoid me too, but for different reasons…

[huskerdont]

@drevil 159762 wrote:

5) I’ve never seen a SRAM chain not say what model they are on each outer plate (like this). Maybe they exist, but I’ve ne’er seen it.

So yeah, no SRAM stamp on any kind on that random out-of-the-bin chain. In my present mood I’d take the chain in and drop it on the counter as a free return, but since I doubt I’ll remember which mech it was, I’m sure my cooler head will prevail.

[huskerdont]

Okay, so there was the bad chain. Then there was the torqued/worn out rear mech. Vicegrip demonstrated with this Park DAG 2 that the derailleur hanger (actually the frame mount) was bent (Thank you, vicegrip!). It’s a wonder that bike shifted at all.

Also, the pull ratios are indeed off for a 10-speed mech with 9-speed shifters/cassettes. Still works better than the Sora that was on it, but I’ll be casually looking around for a higher-grade than Sora 9 speed mech. (And will be picking up a Park DAG 2.2 now that I know how to use it.)

The other option would be to convert this bike to a 10-speed, but since I already have 10-speed and 11-speed bikes, I don’t think I’ll do that.

[drevil]

@huskerdont 159939 wrote:

Okay, so there was the bad chain. Then there was the torqued/worn out rear mech. Vicegrip demonstrated with this Park DAG 2 that the derailleur hanger (actually the frame mount) was bent (Thank you, vicegrip!). It’s a wonder that bike shifted at all.

Also, the pull ratios are indeed off for a 10-speed mech with 9-speed shifters/cassettes. Still works better than the Sora that was on it, but I’ll be casually looking around for a higher-grade than Sora 9 speed mech. (And will be picking up a Park DAG 2.2 now that I know how to use it.)

The other option would be to convert this bike to a 10-speed, but since I already have 10-speed and 11-speed bikes, I don’t think I’ll do that.

I’m glad you figured it out. I think the moral of the story is to not crash

Last year I tried to ride across a log skinny in the rain on my newish SRAM XX1 equipped bike. I slipped, landing square on my rear derailleur, bending teeth of the cog ($300+), the hanger ($25), and loosening the pivots of the derailleur ($220+). I was all:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14745[/ATTACH]

I got the hanger trued, straightened the teeth (but ended up getting a new cassette a few months later for unrelated reasons), but couldn’t do much for the derailleur. It still doesn’t shift 100%, but I just figure that’s the cost of riding across slippery logs in the rain 😮

[EasyRider]

Glad you got it resolved! You were able to straighten the hanger and can now access all 9 cogs?

[Author]

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