Advice needed: Should I switch from 2X10 to 1X11 on a touring bike

[bluerider]

As some of you know, I built a custom Salsa Vaya a couple of years ago. It has a SRAM X9 mountain bike group on it geared at 42/28 double crank and a 12-36 cassette. The full build is here. THIS IS NOT A MOUNTAIN BIKE. The bike gets a lot of use and will need some drivetrain attention relatively soon so I am thinking about taking advantage for this future maintenance to upgrade. I like this setup a lot with the exception of the front derailleur. I have had issues with chain suck and jammed drivetrains over the last few months. It has been recently tuning and dialed in as well but the front of the drivetrain continues to be somewhat problematic.

This hasn’t been a huge deal because the bike generally stays in the big ring except for the worst hills or when fully loaded. But its annoying and I have been tempted to transition to one of SRAM’s new 1X11 mountain bike groups such as GX or X1. My White Industries hub will accept the freehub body to install the 10-42 cassette and I can easily use the mountain bike trigger shifter with a Paul mount. Here is the thing: I see lots of reviews online for cross and mountain bikes but not much in terms of touring style bikes with any load. This bike functions as a commuter, loading tourer on pavement and gravel. It has done the GAP/C&O with 60 lbs. of gear. The bike weighs about 28-30 lbs unloaded I’d guess including full front and rear racks with fenders. It pedals along at 27-28 mph without much trouble and the gearing to low enough to handle pretty much anything loaded. But I hate the derailleur and simplifying is a good thing. So is considering a 1X11 setup on a bike like this a mistake?

I want to stay with a mountain bike group for the durability and my bike is already setup for it. So, considering SRAM GX or X1 with 34 or 36 tooth crank and the 10-42 cassette. In this scenario, I would change to whole group set: shifter, rear derailleur, cassette, freehub and crankset. As long as I can pedal along on 20-25 mph I’ll be happy.

Has anyone done this? Should I ditch the front derailleur? Any advice? Too big of gaps between gears with a bike like this? Will I be walking up hills?

Thanks in advance.

Topic

[ginacico]

Just interjecting some Vaya solidarity, bluerider. Mine has an Ultegra triple, which was stock for the 2014 Vaya Travel. Occasionally I’ve wished for a granny gear, when we’re loaded down for touring and climbing some unexpected hill, and I’ve not had chain drop issues at all. I haven’t really thought to change anything.

Adventure Cycling had a good article which might provide some info: The Drivetrain Dilemma.

Sorry I’m not much help with your question about the 1×10 setup. It’s an intriguing idea, and I’ll be curious what you decide.

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[hozn]

@bluerider 128254 wrote:

Hozn, do you use this bike loaded? Interesting to note, I already own a pair of 10 speed Apex shifters and a pair of S500s currently on the Vaya.

No, I don’t. The closest I come to “loaded” is pulling 60-80 lbs of trailer+child behind me. This gear range works great for that and works well for riding mtb trails around here, but can’t really comment beyond that. Obviously you could go with a smaller front ring to get more lowend range. I like having the option to do road group rides on this bike when it’s rainy (fenders!) — e.g. Hains Point Hammerfest — so I wanted a combination that would let me pedal > 30mph (I think practically speaking [normal cadences] this tops out a bit over 30mph for me).

Yeah, the 10sp mix-and-match is really so nice & easy with SRAM that I don’t think I will switch to 11sp on that bike until I’m “forced” in that direction (or if SRAM embraces more mtb/road interop for 11sp?).

I enjoy the single front ring, but I don’t think I would switch my road bike over. For one thing the praxis front rings shift so nicely that it really doesn’t feel like an encumbrance. And I do notice the missing cogs when I’m riding along on the W&OD; if I were spending a lot of time in low gears I imagine I would miss them even more since those gaps get quite large (the 3 big cogs are 28t, 32t, 36t), but really it’s only the missing 13t,15t or 17t that bugs me (I should pay attention to which one feels missing; I suspect it’s the 15t). But really, this is not a big deal. After ~5k miles I may still find myself shifting up and then back down looking for that gear, but I wouldn’t go back to tighter spacing if it meant adding rings up front.

And I think it looks a lot cleaner.
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[Steve O]

@bluerider 128249 wrote:

Thanks everyone. I know everything will technically work. It’s just hard to find information from anyone who has done this on a touring bike carrying 30 or so lbs. Tons of info on cross bikes, mountain bike, and road bikes. But I haven’t seen anyone do this on a touring bike which regularly carries loads. I just have to wonder how it would work. I don’t use the 28 tooth small ring on the crank much but when I need it….I REALLY NEED IT. I think my best course of action will be to use the gearing calculator and dig in. My guess is that achieving a similar range will be easy, it will be the jumps between gears will be of concern especially when loaded.

Although my everyday load is only 5-8 pounds or so, I do carry groceries, which can be that heavy or more. That said, my grocery runs are local, generally 5 miles or less–not long trips. But hills.

Personally I only really care about the ratios on the low and middle gears. On the high end, unless you’re planning to race, who cares? If you spin out at 34mph going down a hill, just coast.

[vvill]

Instinctively I think for a touring bike used as a touring bike I would stick with a double or triple. If you really were curious about 1x I would try 1×10 as others suggested, since it’ll be cheaper and easier to try out. FWIW I tow around my son in the trail-a-bike without a working FD but I don’t go very fast. Front ring is a 32t, and the rear is 7 speed 13-34. (It’s a 26″ MTB though, not a CX/touring bike.) So if you’re not worried about spinning out I think it would be fine.

I would maybe try to adjust the FD myself. I had chainsuck and general FD issues with mine for a while (46/36 rings) but I finally reinstalled it from scratch and after a lot of adjustments, it works better than ever.

[bluerider]

@ginacico 128257 wrote:

Just interjecting some Vaya solidarity, bluerider. Mine has an Ultegra triple, which was stock for the 2014 Vaya Travel. Occasionally I’ve wished for a granny gear, when we’re loaded down for touring and climbing some unexpected hill, and I’ve not had chain drop issues at all. I haven’t really thought to change anything.

Adventure Cycling had a good article which might provide some info: The Drivetrain Dilemma.

Sorry I’m not much help with your question about the 1×10 setup. It’s an intriguing idea, and I’ll be curious what you decide.

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Thanks for that article. That is some of the best information I have been looking for in terms of 1x for touring and gearing. By the way, I think I have seen you out on the WO&D on your Vaya. The gear inches Co-Motion tries to achieve is helpful. Oddly enough, what they recommend (42/28 crank) and 12-36 cassette is what I am using now.

I am glad the triple works for you. I didn’t want to triple simply because the gearing doesn’t really work for this bike but evidently works for you.

Thanks for the help.

[bluerider]

An update: I have jumped in and started ordering parts for a 1×11 setup. I plan to reuse my crank and convert it with a Wolf Tooth ring. I also got a great deal on a set of SRAM Force1 shifters and couldn’t resist. Need to order an driver for my White Industries hub and choose a front ratio for the chainring. I am pretty excited.

Thanks for everyones help

[Raymo853]

I am just converting my old IF Club Racer from road to touring duties. I am going a bit nuts on analyzing gear ranges. Now unlike many in this thread, this will be just a touring and gravel duties. I have a dedicated single ring CX and commuting bikes, both running 38t with 11-32 cogs.

I have found my other road bike, with a 34 chainring and a biggests cog of 27, not low enough. That gear is 35.5″ or 10.6 MPH at 100 RPM. I want something lower for the touring bike, about 28″ or 8.5 MPH @ 100. Now a single 38 ring with a rear 36 would be close 29.8″ or 89 MPH. And the top end will be a little too low 97.4″ or 29.0 MPH. I also fear the big gaps, it sometimes annoys me on the CX bike and keeps me from shifting enough on the commuter bike.

My spreadsheet and market analysis is leading to the idea of a 11-32 cassette with a 44/32 chainring setup. To get that setup, I am planning to buy a XT or XTR triple crankset. Why? They are freaking dirt cheap since nobody can stand the fashion shame of using triples anymore. I plan to remove the inner ring.

[mstone]

@Raymo853 128694 wrote:

And the top end will be a little too low 97.4″ or 29.0 MPH

You will never need to pedal more than 29 MPH on a touring bike. Did you mean too high?

[dkel]

@Raymo853 128694 wrote:

I am going a bit nuts on analyzing gear ranges.

I don’t see how that’s possible! I love my gear inch spreadsheet! I have a cell for tire size, and it recalculates the whole sheet when I change the number. Sweet!

[peterw_diy]

@mstone 128698 wrote:

You will never need to pedal more than 29 MPH on a touring bike. Did you mean too high?

Well, he did say a 28″ low was low enough. Personally I want at a low gear under 21″ for a touring bike.

[Raymo853]

@mstone 128698 wrote:

You will never need to pedal more than 29 MPH on a touring bike. Did you mean too high?

That is at 100 rpm, a spin I rarely can handle these days. If I am on a long grade it is nice to have a gear of at least 100 inches to allow slow, say 60 RPM 97″at 80 RPM is only 23 mph.

I may have mixed some with my terms, but I love gear inches. I know it is a weird thing, but it helps me understand the range. What I am looking for is a range from 25 inch to 110 inch range for the touring bike. So that is between 6 and 26 mph at 80 RPM. It really seems only a 44/32 with a 11-36 can do that or a 44/32/24 with a 11-27.

[Raymo853]

@dkel 128699 wrote:

I don’t see how that’s possible! I love my gear inch spreadsheet! I have a cell for tire size, and it recalculates the whole sheet when I change the number. Sweet!

I have one too. I can share it later if anyone wants it.
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[mstone]

@Raymo853 128705 wrote:

If I am on a long grade it is nice to have a gear of at least 100 inches to allow slow, say 60 RPM 97″at 80 RPM is only 23 mph

What I do on long downhill grades when touring is coast and enjoy the breeze; braking is usually the bigger concern given the weight. You certainly need to build a bike for you, but in my experience it’s much more common to wish for a lower granny on an uphill than regret not being able to spin out a little later on a downhill.

[bluerider]

I settled on the SRAM 10-42 cassette. At this point, I am deciding on the front chain ring ratio. At the moment, I am leaning towards a 34 tooth ring. This nearly matches my current range but with a little less top end. If I plan on taking a heavier loaded long tour especially in hilly terrain I can always just switch to a 32 tooth ring to move toward the low end. At 80 RPM, I will be moving at 22 MPH and give me 22.0 gear inches in low. I think that is enough for this bike. The 32 ring would change it to 20.7 gear inches.

I also got a red hot smoking deal on a set of SRAM Force1 shifters so I will be moving away from my Paul mounted barcons. This will be a mashup of SRAM road shifters with mountain parts. Thanks SRAM for allowing these parts to play nice.

[hozn]

Interesting — so SRAM 11sp road interchanges with mtb parts? I thought that was limited to 10sp, but am happy to learn otherwise.

[Author]

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