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Thread: Is the Lynn/Lee Hwy intersection in Rosslyn safer?

  1. #11
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    I would say the IOD is slightly safer in those first few seconds, as at least some of the regular-commute drivers are aware of the barely-visible miniscule no-right-on-red illumination. Unfortunately many still take the right despite the lit sign so you have to watch carefully and psychoanalyze the drivers. BUT I would say that itís actually more threatening than before the second the count-down begins Ė the moment that drivers consider the end of the bike/pedestrian time. If Iím not in the corner launch-area near the start of the few-secondsí pedestrian time, I need to wait through a full cycle, knowing the cars will be whipping around as soon as the count-down startsÖthe count-down is a joke from a biker/pedestrian standpoint, as itís too dangerous to be in the crosswalk. It is particularly unsafe traveling in the westward direction (toward the hotel), which for me is often at night in the dark Ė I almost always wait out the full cycle even when I arrive during the pedestrian time before the countdown, so I can position my bike at that corner before the pedestrian time begins, in hopes that I will be seen ahead of time. As a result the wait time for us bicycle riders is now is much longer than in the bad old days when we would do-si-do with the cars for the full Walk time.
    I am surprised that Arlington considers this situation to be such progress as to make a promotional video.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    It does not seem safer to me. Regular commuters seem to obey the lighted no turn on red, but enough cars don't that you can't trust that any driver will. Lately, the only time I've seen ACPD there, the officer has been in their car. I have been told there has been no ACPD enforcement in the afternoon/evening, and I find driver behavior reflects that. It seems like we've been lucky with no collisions lately.
    This. The numbers are so small that trying to extract statistical trends from them is a joke.

    I don't see why the county or VDOT chose to engage in non-standard signage here.
    Because car privilege. This entire farce is because cars aren't allowed to be held up the way pedestrians are.

  3. #13
    DismalScientist is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    Because car privilege. This entire farce is because cars aren't allowed to be held up the way pedestrians are.
    Exactly how does a sign with a red X over a poorly visible right turn arrow reflect car privilege over a standard no right turn arrow?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    Exactly how does a sign with a red X over a poorly visible right turn arrow reflect car privilege over a standard no right turn arrow?
    Because the unthinkable (but obvious) alternative is a permanent "no right turn on red" sign. Nothing that intermittently regulates behavior while drivers aren't looking is going to be reliable.

  5. #15
    DismalScientist is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    A stoplight by definition intermittently regulates behavior. Furthermore, a red arrow at the bottom of the stack is nor likely to be "seen" than an X over arrow that is not part of traffic light stack.

    Proper signage is a different question than what the rules should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KLizotte View Post
    I don't ride through there during weekday rush hour but have found that the no turn on red sign to be very useful! Now if only we could get the same thing at the next intersection heading west on the Custis.
    I am up for getting rid of right turn on red everywhere for all times. I am old enough to remember the fights over it's introduction and was not convinced then as a child and am still not.

  7. #17
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    And at 19th and Lynn in Rosslyn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    A stoplight by definition intermittently regulates behavior. Furthermore, a red arrow at the bottom of the stack is nor likely to be "seen" than an X over arrow that is not part of traffic light stack.

    Proper signage is a different question than what the rules should be.
    1) It turns out that there actually is ambiguity over the meaning of a right red arrow.

    2) I don't think that a right red arrow that comes on "sometimes" is going to work any better than the sign.

    3) The real solution is to ban right turns on red, all the time, so that drivers don't have to remember to check the light after checking to see that there's no traffic coming (because that will never happen, because it's counter to every instinct the driver has based on experience at any other intersection in the country that allows right turn on red--in general the state of the light is irrelevant in a right turn on red situation, so drivers know not to waste time checking it).
    Last edited by mstone; 12-17-2015 at 12:24 PM. Reason: just realized I forgot the "on red" and accidentally started a revolution

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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    The real solution is to ban right turns, all the time. . .
    I like this. No right on green either.

    Might back traffic up a bit, though.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    Furthermore, a red arrow at the bottom of the stack is nor likely to be "seen" than an X over arrow that is not part of traffic light stack.
    I actually disagree with this. I believe a right arrow that flashes yellow while the straight is green and is solid red otherwise would be more noticeable. Flashing yellow during the green phase might alert drivers to pay attention while they are turning, in fact.

    What I'm not sure about is how it should behave during times when (if?) right on red is permitted. I can't think of a good way to remove all ambiguity.

    Regardless of whether any changes to the signals are made, better signage is still needed to "educate" drivers about what they should be doing.

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