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Thread: ELF pedal electric car on W&OD

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLizotte View Post
    SolarBikeCar,

    Assuming you drive safely, you haven't addressed the real concern that your vehicle's weight is a real danger to others on the trail in the case of an accident.
    A horse weighs 1000#s, and is 5 ft or taller and can gallop at 30 mph. What is your opinion about the safety of horses on the W&OD?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    I'm too old to text let alone do it one handed with the non-dominant hand while pedaling. You young whippersnappers are so talented!
    Ha ha. But seriously what's this claim that you can't apply power to the drive wheel(s) (can only coast?) unless your right hand is on the handlebar?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    A horse weighs 1000#s, and is 5 ft or taller and can gallop at 30 mph. What is your opinion about the safety of horses on the W&OD?
    Personally, I don't like them using the trail for long distances. BUT the law is very clear that they're legal on some sections so that's moot (they are mostly required to stay on the bridle path though). That's not the case for the ELF car where legality is in question.


    I've NEVER seen one galloping on the trail though so 30 MPH has yet to occur from my experience. Usually they go more like 5 MPH. And they only seem to get on the trail for super short stretches in between the horse paths. As someone who has worked on a farm I know how to handle them/bike around them safely (aka stay FAR away from their back legs, announce yourself loud and very very early without the use of a horn or bell since those spook horses, and ask the rider if it's safe to pass before you do it so they know to be in full control of the horse).

    They're also easier to see around than the ELF car.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    A horse weighs 1000#s, and is 5 ft or taller and can gallop at 30 mph. What is your opinion about the safety of horses on the W&OD?
    This is covered by established trail etiquette of all users giving way to horses. Plus the sections of the WO&D open to horses is only those parts with a break in the usually adjacent gravel trail.

    To me physics and the established legal precedence of grand-fathered in users, justifies this rule. I would say there should be rules about those horse riders that cannot control their animal properly, lack the training themselves, or have not properly trained their animal. They should not be bring such animals onto public properties open to other user groups. (Same applies to dogs)

    As yes horses can gallop at such speeds, but not for very long.

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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    A horse weighs 1000#s, and is 5 ft or taller and can gallop at 30 mph. What is your opinion about the safety of horses on the W&OD?
    Since you've demonstrated a willingness to set up straw man arguments and irrelevant excuses ad nauseum I'd like to call your attention back to the real crux of the problem: you're not taking responsibility for your own actions which negatively impact the community around you:
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymo853 View Post
    The bad behaviors of runners, walkers, and cyclists does not excuse your bad behavior nor your operating a car on a infrastructure not designed nor designated for cars.
    A majority of people seem to believe the ELF is inappropriate to drive on the WO&D and other multi use paths, and your refusal to acknowledge this is not having any concrete positive impacts despite your flights of fancy otherwise. The really very simple solution is to drive the ELF on the streets, where it obviously was designed to be driven, even if that isn't the most convenient thing for you.

    Where is your threshold? Freaking people out isn't good enough? Do you really have to hurt someone in an accident before you reconsider? 5 people? What will it take for you to modify your behavior for the better?
    Last edited by LeprosyStudyGroup; 11-12-2015 at 03:01 PM.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeprosyStudyGroup View Post
    Since you've demonstrated a willingness to set up straw man arguments.
    Please don't project. I am simply asking questions to understand the nature of the objection. If it is something that I can change I will. I can reduce the width 6" by folding in the side mirrors, for example. I can change riding style if it makes people uncomfortable. But if your objections are irrational and you want a rule applied only to the elf but not to any other user of the W&OD with similar characteristics (weight, height, speed, width) then the feedback isn't going to get much respect.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    Please don't project. I am simply asking questions to understand the nature of the objection. If it is something that I can change I will. I can reduce the width 6" by folding in the side mirrors, for example. I can change riding style if it makes people uncomfortable. But if your objections are irrational and you want a rule applied only to the elf but not to any other user of the W&OD with similar characteristics (weight, height, speed, width) then the feedback isn't going to get much respect.
    Please, you are simply oblivious and self-centered, even in this reply you are using the "I may be bad, but so are they." deflection.

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  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emm View Post
    [Horses are] also easier to see around than the ELF car.
    An elf has a transparent back and front window. From behind one can see through the vehicle to the path in front.

  10. #109
    Steve O's Avatar
    Steve O is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLizotte View Post
    The combined weight of the Elf and you is a lot compared to a cyclist or pedestrian.
    A tandem with two normal-weight males likely weighs as much or more than the ELF and driver. A tandem with rcannon and creadinger on it most certainly does.

    (because they are tall and therefore weigh more proportionately than a shorter person; I'm not insulting them).
    Last edited by Steve O; 11-12-2015 at 03:37 PM. Reason: although I don't mind occasionally needling rcannon

  11. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    An elf has a transparent back and front window. From behind one can see through the vehicle to the path in front.
    No. You cannot effectively do that. Only a very small part of the trail is visible through your front and rear windows, and since my head is not level with the windows while I am on a bike, the angle, your head blocking the windows, and the pillars that hold the windows in place meant I didn't see enough to judge if I could pass. Just that tiny view was useless--I needed to see a much winder view in order to safely judge my ability to get around you. This is the same reason in a car you rarely look out of the windshield of the car in front of you to see if you can pass. There is just too much in the way and angles are all wrong.

    I recommend you put a friend in your ELF, and ride a bike behind it for 10-20 miles. Try to pass and be passed in normal weekend or weekday commute conditions where there are multiple other trail users coming from both directions. You'll quickly figure out why it can be scary for normal trail users to encounter your ELF, and why many of us support it remaining illegal to ride them on the trail.

  12. Likes JimK, Vicegrip, Steve O, KLizotte liked this post

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