Page 77 of 96 FirstFirst ... 2767757677787987 ... LastLast
Results 761 to 770 of 952

Thread: e-Bikes - Let's talk

  1. #761
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Falls church
    Posts
    1,216
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    I think we should mandate untrue wheels and badly adjusted brakes. That will keep you bastard speed demons in check.
    Way too much untrue around already. Not adding lack of true to my wheels.

  2. Likes hozn liked this post
  3. #762
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Arlington
    Posts
    1,080
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicegrip View Post
    Way too much untrue around already. Not adding lack of true to my wheels.
    I am also uncertain on the concept of badly adjusted brakes making the trails safer.

  4. #763
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    114
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    we need the General Assembly to establish a classification like that in California, possibly even copying the Ca legislative language, which would enable localities to allow class 1 and 2 ebikes on trails
    I'd like for that to happen, and for all the bike advocacy groups to get behind such a change. I would note the California language requires legal ebikes be labelled by the manufacturer with their class rating but that could be interpreted as covering only manufactured complete ebikes and may exclude folks like me that have converted their bicycle with a class 1 pedelec kit motor, if the legislation were worded to make explicit retailers can certify and label aftermarket conversions in a similar way the DMV undertakes safety inspections, I would gladly pay a local bike shop that services ebikes to check my controller settings in return for the required class label.
    Last edited by Dewey; 11-01-2017 at 08:36 AM.

  5. Likes secstate liked this post
  6. #764
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    South Arlington
    Posts
    280
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sjclaeys View Post
    Good question and one that the more vocal e-bike advocates do not seem to want to answer.
    I don't know that class 3 distinction is of great importance. Seems to me that speed limits are the real hangup for e-bike advocates, and 20mph (class 2) is still faster than 90% of trail traffic. I think that establishing even modest limits on trails -- say, 15mph limits during peak weekend and commuting hours - would really dampen the market for ebikes. I think most people will obey speed limits even if they can't be enforced, because they understand they exist for public safety reasons. I also think that they would therefore think twice about spending $2,000 on a bike that they can't in good conscience take above 15mph. If you're able bodied and in reasonably good shape, it's not that hard to go 12-14mph, which gives the ebike an edge of just a few mph. Speed sells.

  7. #765
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    132
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crickey7 View Post
    Right now, a very high percentage of bikes sold each year are Huffy-type bikes retailing for $350-$400. And many of those bikes get ridden around 3 times a year. If ebikes don't get close to that price, they won't sell more than a relatively small share of that market because most bikes are not being sold for transportation or even regular recreation. To hit that kind of share, E bikes would have to create their market, not cannibalize the existing market.
    Here are some numbers I came across this morning -- apologies if they have already been mentioned in this impressively long thread.

    Around 30% of bikes sold in Holland are now e-bikes, and they account for more than 50% of turnover. The rise of e-bikes has driven the average selling price of a bicycle to more than 1,000 Euros.

    The Dutch market is probably very different than the U.S., in no small part due to superior infrastructure, but e-bikes have taken off without trying to compete with the proverbial Huffy. We may need to stop thinking of e-bike prices in comparison to other bikes, but rather in terms of how price-competitive they are with public transportation, gas, parking, etc.

    If I were an e-bike lobbyist, I would be pushing hard for employers to stop subsidizing parking, or instead give employees the option to cash out the parking subsidies.

    I would be glad to lead an eBikeArlington study trip to the Netherlands.

    edit: re: EasyRider's comment above, I would be curious to know the average speed of an e-bike rider in countries where they have become popular. It's not at all obvious to me that speed is their main selling point and that 15mph is somehow "too slow" for them to be competitive.
    Last edited by secstate; 11-01-2017 at 09:27 AM.

  8. #766
    lordofthemark's Avatar
    lordofthemark is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    The forgotten corner of Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    2,565
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyRider View Post
    I don't know that class 3 distinction is of great importance. Seems to me that speed limits are the real hangup for e-bike advocates, and 20mph (class 2) is still faster than 90% of trail traffic. I think that establishing even modest limits on trails -- say, 15mph limits during peak weekend and commuting hours - would really dampen the market for ebikes. I think most people will obey speed limits even if they can't be enforced, because they understand they exist for public safety reasons. I also think that they would therefore think twice about spending $2,000 on a bike that they can't in good conscience take above 15mph. If you're able bodied and in reasonably good shape, it's not that hard to go 12-14mph, which gives the ebike an edge of just a few mph. Speed sells.

    1. The general question of enforcement has also come up in our discussions. On the one hand, at least that does not require action by Richmond - though it would involve the NPS on the MVT - but at least on City owned trails (Holmes Run, Wayne Anderson, etc) it would be within City jurisdiction. OTOH , while I cannot speak for other jurisdictions, the City of Alexandria remains under substantial financial pressures, due to the weak commercial real estate market, WMATA needs, education needs, and aging infrastructure. In recent years the police dept was understaffed for various reasons - that seems to be remedied and the number of officers dedicated to traffic enforcement significantly increased. However the priority for that will be, and IMO has to be, enforcement on the streets, where the greatest dangers to pedestrians, to people on bikes, and also to drivers exist.

    2. I am not sure why California chose 20MPH as the cutoff point rather than 15MPH. IIUC at least some European countries make 15 (the metric equivalent, rather) the cutoff - not sure of the full range in all Euro countries. Not sure if it would be viable for Va to establish a different standard (and I strongly think it would be good if at least Va, Md, and DC had common classifications). Note also, the classification does not only impact the question of legality on trails - at least in California class 3 ebikes are not allowed to be ridden by riders under 16, and helmet use is mandatory for adults riding them - which is not the case for class 1 and 2, which are treated more like bikes in those regards.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 11-01-2017 at 09:58 AM.

  9. Likes secstate liked this post
  10. #767
    lordofthemark's Avatar
    lordofthemark is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    The forgotten corner of Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    2,565
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Note one reason for not making the cutoff point too low. Though the contention here has been about usage on trails, as I have said earlier, I think the real strength of ebikes is on roads. Maybe not for a cautious parent pulling children, or for someone completely new to riding, but for someone who is an experienced rider facing issues of aging or physical disability (quite a few of us in not that many years) or a newbie who has learned enough to be more confident, a speed of 20MPH instead of 15 could be very helpful in navigating our streets. We have many streets that are signed at 25MPH of course, where riding in the general travel lane, or a conventional bike lane, is more comfortable at 20MPH than at 15MPH or 12MPH. I know my least comfortable times on roads is when I am laboring up a hill (or even a "hill")at under 10mph, and taking the lane is really not a reasonable option, but the lane is too narrow for riding to the right to be comfortable or even safe. Now someone could buy a class 3 ebike, but then they would not have legal access to trails which in some places are key connections (as dasgeh has pointed out). But making the cutoff point 20MPH, may make it more important to actually enforce 15MPH. The feasibility of doing that is a subject for discussion. And as we see in this discussion, not all riders agree on the desirability of that - many do seem to believe that riding 20MPH, but doing so correctly, can be safe, and not only at completely uncrowded times (I assume there would be no enforcement on trails at uncrowded times, but I can't be sure, and then there remains the problem of contributory negligence)

  11. #768
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Reston, VA
    Posts
    626
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyRider View Post
    I don't know that class 3 distinction is of great importance. Seems to me that speed limits are the real hangup for e-bike advocates, and 20mph (class 2) is still faster than 90% of trail traffic. I think that establishing even modest limits on trails -- say, 15mph limits during peak weekend and commuting hours - would really dampen the market for ebikes. I think most people will obey speed limits even if they can't be enforced, because they understand they exist for public safety reasons. I also think that they would therefore think twice about spending $2,000 on a bike that they can't in good conscience take above 15mph. If you're able bodied and in reasonably good shape, it's not that hard to go 12-14mph, which gives the ebike an edge of just a few mph. Speed sells.
    If I go 55 on the beltway (posted speed limit) I get blow away by virtually every other driver. So why do you think that mentality wouldn't carryover to a speed limit on the trails? Public safety reasons? In a better world, maybe, but this ain't it. I think the only thing that would keep most from surpassing a posted speed limit on the trails is the limits imposed by their own quads.

  12. Likes huskerdont liked this post
  13. #769
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    179
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    2. I am not sure why California chose 20MPH as the cutoff point rather than 15MPH. IIUC at least some European countries make 15 (the metric equivalent, rather) the cutoff - not sure of the full range in all Euro countries. Not sure if it would be viable for Va to establish a different standard (and I strongly think it would be good if at least Va, Md, and DC had common classifications). Note also, the classification does not only impact the question of legality on trails - at least in California class 3 ebikes are not allowed to be ridden by riders under 16, and helmet use is mandatory for adults riding them - which is not the case for class 1 and 2, which are treated more like bikes in those regards.
    The 15MPH limit in most European countries is tied to a EU directive that defines an e-bike as a pedal-assist, maximum 250W motor, and limits the assist to 25kph (roughly 15.5mph); the motor cuts out after that speed is attained.

    CA and most other states that have done something here tie to the federal Consumer Product Safety Act, which defined a "low speed electric bicycle" as having a maximum 750W motor and the bike is only capable of 20mph when powered solely by the motor. To be more stringent than that speed standard at the state level probably wouldn't be realistic.

  14. #770
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Alexandria
    Posts
    61
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Riding in this morning, I was very politely passed by an ebike. She waited until a pedestrian passed, then called her pass and off she went. A model cyclist and e-cyclist!

    Also saw an xtracycle with pedal assist too!

  15. Likes Steve O liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •