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Thread: e-Bikes - Let's talk

  1. #311
    TwoWheelsDC's Avatar
    TwoWheelsDC is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post
    Ok, maybe the problem is that the classification doesn't have any practical implications for where you can or cannot ride the e-bike? Maybe if NVRPA or NPS enforced the "no motors" rule it would matter more?
    Well the fact that it has some implications for what requires registration to use on the road seems a decent starting point for the conversation about what's allowed on trails. No pedals and a motor that can go 20+? Maybe not appropriate for the trail...Over 750 watts? Maybe not on the trail....

    Somewhat meaningless without enforcement, as you say, but for liability purposes (in case of an accident) there should be something concrete and sensible given changes in technology.

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    The author of the Washington Post op-ed on e-bikes posted a fuller discussion from his point of view on TheWashCycle: http://www.thewashcycle.com/2017/08/....html#comments. Some folks on the Forum have already commented. WashCycle will give his response tomorrow.

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    Default I confess, I am an e-biker

    I ride my e-bike on the W O & D. My bike requires me to pedal; I do not have a throttle. Instead, it measures the torque applied at the pedals and provides assist depending on the mode I am in (anywhere from 0 to 200%). Without the ebike, I could not ride anymore because of physical limitations (I can not allow my heart rate to exceed 120 bpm).

    Yesterday (Sunday, 8/6) my daughter and I were riding the trail in Vienna. We were riding slowly. At the Mill Street entrance, I watched a family exiting the path. Some MF was booking down at 30+ MPH, and nearly hit a guy carrying a baby, then proceeded to curse him out. He was on a road bike. No motor. He was more of an A-hole than any ebike rider I have seen.

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  6. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhs1963 View Post
    Some MF was booking down at 30+ MPH, and nearly hit a guy carrying a baby, then proceeded to curse him out. He was on a road bike. No motor. He was more of an A-hole than any ebike rider I have seen.
    Not defending the guy, but I'm a teeny bit skeptical of the speed estimates here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhs1963 View Post

    Yesterday (Sunday, 8/6) my daughter and I were riding the trail in Vienna. We were riding slowly. At the Mill Street entrance, I watched a family exiting the path. Some MF was booking down at 30+ MPH, and nearly hit a guy carrying a baby, then proceeded to curse him out. He was on a road bike. No motor. He was more of an A-hole than any ebike rider I have seen.
    When you see someone on an ebike doing the same thing at 28mph, you'll understand why there is so much consternation at allowing ebikes on the trails. Riding 25-30mph on even a road or TTbike is very hard, and only a few can do it. Giving anyone that kind of power under them completely changes the dynamics of the trails from being recreational to being mini highways.

    I personally don't have issues with low speed ebike riders on trails, but that's not what is being pushed and advertised. The promotions are for high speed ebikes that can get you to work or where you're going fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zsionakides View Post
    When you see someone on an ebike doing the same thing at 28mph, you'll understand why there is so much consternation at allowing ebikes on the trails. Riding 25-30mph on even a road or TTbike is very hard, and only a few can do it. Giving anyone that kind of power under them completely changes the dynamics of the trails from being recreational to being mini highways.
    It depends on the grade. There are parts of the Custis where you can easily hit 30mph without pedaling. Besides, it's entirely likely that the segment of the population that right now doesn't ride a bike is overall more cautious and that the average cycling behavior would improve if more folks were on ebikes. Because it's not the bike, it's the behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    It depends on the grade. There are parts of the Custis where you can easily hit 30mph without pedaling. Besides, it's entirely likely that the segment of the population that right now doesn't ride a bike is overall more cautious and that the average cycling behavior would improve if more folks were on ebikes. Because it's not the bike, it's the behavior.
    that is one explanation for the otherwise odd phenomenon that cyclist behavior is better where and when there are more riders. When we make biking dangerous or uncomfortable, only the risk lovers will ride, when we make it like Copenhagen ordinary folks will ride. Not clear though if that applies when the barrier to riding is not its real or perceived danger, but the physical effort - for sure there are reckless drivers around here. A lot of this may get to how ebikes are sold and marketed - is this something that A. You can use to roll 15 MPH down the trails, despite your age/physical condition/heavy load. B. Something that will make it more comfortable for you to take the lanes on the gaps in the seg infra network or C. Something that will enable you to scoot into work at 20MPH plus without riding with cars. Its also possible that the different classes of ebikes are being marketed differently.

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  13. #318
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    It seems to me that it's in the interests of the larger ebike manufacturers to push for the development of reasonable model codes for municipalities. If everyone agreed upon what constituted a low-powered bike that would be the easiest sell for allowing on all bike infra, then these manufacturers would have predictability. The alternative could be a wattage race among manufacturers that would make people more reluctant to allow ebikes on bike infra, which would in turn reduce some of the attractiveness for consumers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    It depends on the grade. There are parts of the Custis where you can easily hit 30mph without pedaling. Besides, it's entirely likely that the segment of the population that right now doesn't ride a bike is overall more cautious and that the average cycling behavior would improve if more folks were on ebikes. Because it's not the bike, it's the behavior.
    I'm sorry, I'm calling BS. Dasgeh, I'm calling you out personally. Strava or it didn't happen. Show me the ride where you hit 30mph (easily) on the Custis riding a normal (not 100lb cargo bike). Otherwise, you're spouting misinformed conjecture.

    "Easily hitting 30mph" without pedaling is not possible on a regular hybrid or road bike along the Custis with average folks making 250w (Max!).

    I'm also calling BS on the whole "more e-bike users = better average cycling behavior". The second you give some trailboss, CAT6, pathlete an extra 750w, he's gonna be a d*ck.

    I'm laying out my hand here: There are too many people on this board that think that anything faster than them is "30+ mph". Yet, at the same time, I see the same folks trying to defend e-bike use on the trail where 25+ mph is ACTUALLY EASILY attainable with only (roughly) 200w of rider input on top of 750w+ of e-assist.

    I'm trying to get this straight: It's okay for an e-bike user with limited bike handling skills to "easily" hit speeds in excess of 25mph on a bike/ped trail (because, hay, they're out riding, at least!), yet the second some dirtbag on a road bike does that under his own power, zooming past other trail users, he's lambasted for being an "MF-r" or an "A-hole"?

    Hello! Hypocrisy!

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  16. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry meatmotor View Post
    i'm laying out my hand here: There are too many people on this board that think that anything faster than them is "12+ mph".
    ftfy

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