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Thread: e-Bikes - Let's talk

  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhs1963 View Post
    One more comment, on the day when I way going 20 mph into a 20 mph head wind, the road bike behind me seemed quite happy to draft. Even thanked me at the light....(crossing lee highway.)
    For myself, I would also draft a full-on motorcycle if it were driving down the W&OD at a good clip. Roadies are inherently lazy.

    The piece that seems to be omitted here by e-bike riders is the fact that they are currently illegal on (all?) the MUPs. You can lobby to change that (WABA is apparently), but clearly the world is pretty divided on whether that is a good idea. Just so we're clear on that. The sense of entitlement here feels pretty thick.

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  3. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    Spoken by someone who can't do math or physics but still thinks they know more than an engineer on how to build safe bikes.
    You are a software engineer, right ... ? I guess you don't know Vicegrip at all.

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  5. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post
    For myself, I would also draft a full-on motorcycle if it were driving down the W&OD at a good clip. Roadies are inherently lazy.

    The piece that seems to be omitted here by e-bike riders is the fact that they are currently illegal on (all?) the MUPs. You can lobby to change that (WABA is apparently), but clearly the world is pretty divided on whether that is a good idea. Just so we're clear on that. The sense of entitlement here feels pretty thick.
    Per Mark Blacknell's post early in the thread, Va Code is unclear, and so it depends on local jurisdictions to explicitly ban it. IIUC NVRPA has done so, but Arlington and Alexandria have not. NPS bans, as do Md (or is it just MoCo) and so does DC.

    So that would mean they are legal (or at least in a grey area) on the Custis, the 4MRT, and on the Holmes Run Trail (and I guess the Eisenhower and Potomac Ave MUPs, the linear park trail, and the Wayne Anderson Bikeway). But banned on the W&OD, the MVT, the CCT, the MBT, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post
    The sense of entitlement here feels pretty thick.
    C'mon. Entitlement? Many of us did the legal research, found it unclear, even discussed it with the police (July ABAC meeting - they said the law was unclear, which to them means no ban to enforce), and thus make informed decisions on how and where we ride currently. And now we're saying the better public policy for everyone on bikes and using trails is to change the laws and how trails are built so that ebikes are legal and bad behavior is illegal and discouragesd as much as possible. That's not entitlement.

    If there's any entitlement in this debate, it's the people who are able to ride at high speeds for long distances on non-ebikes saying they should be allowed on the trails, but that we should ban the ebikes that enable others to do the same.

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  9. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    C'mon. Entitlement? Many of us did the legal research, found it unclear, even discussed it with the police (July ABAC meeting - they said the law was unclear, which to them means no ban to enforce), and thus make informed decisions on how and where we ride currently. And now we're saying the better public policy for everyone on bikes and using trails is to change the laws and how trails are built so that ebikes are legal and bad behavior is illegal and discouragesd as much as possible. That's not entitlement.

    If there's any entitlement in this debate, it's the people who are able to ride at high speeds for long distances on non-ebikes saying they should be allowed on the trails, but that we should ban the ebikes that enable others to do the same.
    I guess I'm referring specifically to the W&OD usage here, where I thought the regulatory lawyers on the board demonstrated pretty concretely that when they say "no motorized vehicles allowed" that actually means what it says.

    Yeah, ignoring that for convenience, especially when it is as controversial as it is even within the cycling community, seems a bit entitled.

    I reject the suggestion that those who don't ride e-bikes are somehow the privileged class in this equation. I would like to use my rollerblades in the mall because I have a hard time walking from Gordon Biersch to LLBean; those that can walk the length of Tysons and insist I should keep my skates off are the entitled ones?

    No one is trying to ban e-bikes. The strongest opinion is that they shouldn't be allowed on the trails. There are plenty of places regular bikes aren't allowed. Heck, I want to ride my mountain bike in wilderness areas, but I don't because that too is disallowed.

    But I am sure with some actual regulation this will be a non-issue.
    Last edited by hozn; 08-08-2017 at 12:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post
    For myself, I would also draft a full-on motorcycle if it were driving down the W&OD at a good clip. Roadies are inherently lazy.
    Not as lazy as the rider on the motorcycle....

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  12. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post
    For myself, I would also draft a full-on motorcycle if it were driving down the W&OD at a good clip. Roadies are inherently lazy.
    The greatest day of my life was when I drafted an Old Towne Trolley for almost the entire back half of Hains Point and doing a 28 mph soft pedal.

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  14. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    C'mon. Entitlement?
    Idunno! Maybe if you just spent $4-$7k on an e-bike, you might be a little entitled.

    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    bad behavior is illegal and discouragesd as much as possible.
    Bad behavior... like going 30mph on a MUP? or no? we're still not clear on this.

    Should speed limit signs just say, "It depends..."?
    Last edited by Harry Meatmotor; 08-08-2017 at 11:17 AM.

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    As an official fence-sitter on this one (okay, leaning pro now), I don't think either side sounds that entitled. I'd prefer to to leave that term for those to whom it belongs. Like that SBC guy.

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    So let me see.

    We have some folks worried about ebikes being banned from places they are now legal, or enforcement becoming real in places they are already banned. Some who are worried they will be legalized where they are now banned. And (naturally) lots of folks who are not really interested in the policy issues (understandably, given how difficult enforcement actually is) and are focused on discussing the morality of different ways to ride (which discussion has the advantage of not needing to deal with enforcement, but the disadvantage in that the low readership of the forum probably means it won't change much)

    Some folks are focused on the Custis, some on the MVT, some on the W&OD, and some on other trails maybe? Which have different volumes of usage, different mixes of bikes and peds (and the peds on the MVT include a particularly high proportion of tourists, I think?) as well as different geometries. And different options for parallel (and feeder) routes.

    People are discussing different classes of ebikes with different watts and speed maximums. Some envision unencumbered riders, some are envisioning an adult pulling a trailer with at least one (in WashCycle's latest post THREE) child.

    In terms of bad behaviors to discourage among all riders ebike or regular, some are focused on speed (or speed combined with mass) per se, while others seem more concerned with close and uncalled passes, etc.

    I think the multidemsionality of the issue, though perhaps leading to a productive discussion in some ways, also leads to a fair amount of talking past each other.

    Proceed.

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