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Thread: e-Bikes - Let's talk

  1. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post
    Hey, I've got another one for you ...

    But I really don't ride that fast. I certainly could never maintain 22.5mph average on my commute.
    I've argued this point before, but this BB seems to vastly overestimate speed. I went back and looked at the last (miserable) TT I did, and I averaged 23.6mph over 12 miles, rolling terrain. Just because one can hit 30mph on a downhill doesn't make it safe for everyone to ride bikes at a 25mph (or even 20mph!) average speed around here.

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  3. #792
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    One more time, the California classification breaks at 20 and 28MPH, not 15 OR 25. While we don't have to follow California, the industry seems to support that, and I am skeptical a different scheme will fly (but if people actually familiar with the issue in other states, or in Richmond, have something to say, I will listen). Between the three choices that seems to leave - banning all ebikes, allowing only class 1 and 2 as defined in Ca (ergo upto 20MPH) or allowing all three classes (ergo up to 28MPH) I lean strongly towars allowing class 1 and 2. Though I still think we have higher priorities in Alexandria than pushing for the City to request that change from Richmond. I even think we have higher priorities in Richmond, like allowing automated speed enforcement, and clarifying City authority to create speed limits below 25MPH on residential streets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Fair enough. I wasn't talking about the street, I was talking about the trail. My point is that if you only let ebikes capped at 15mph on the trails, and you expect lots of new people to ride ebikes, then, given the reality of our region (i.e. that you have to ride on trails to get into DC), you'd expect people to buy these capped ebikes. But if they're ebikes are capped, then they're more likely to stay on the trails, making our trails more crowded. That may be fine for your 12yo, but I want the trails to be safe for my 7yo, so I'd like a world where the trails aren't too full. Seems like you can achieve both with a speed limit on the trails, then routes that are more attractive for those who ride fast (and yes, ebikes) to get that volume voluntarily off the trail.
    I guess I didn't understand. But this line of argument is lost on me. We want to make sure that all e-bikes are allowed on the trails, but then we want them to voluntarily get off the trail because it could otherwise become too crowded?

    Re: trails getting crowded, I find myself agreeing with Steve O on this:
    But crowding our trails is actually a way to get the attention of decision makers and move along this path.
    So, I suppose I'm all for crowding the trails with reasonably-paced traffic. I think when you have e-bikes weaving between people on the Custis at 25+mph you have a problem. So, if you anticipate that e-bike volume is going to grow enough to cause our MUPs to become unsafe for 7-year-olds, why on earth would we want to encourage - or even allow - the use of class-3 motors on these trails? I don't follow this.
    Last edited by hozn; 11-01-2017 at 08:36 PM.

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  7. #794
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    In an anecdotal tangent, I met a former coworker of mine today who rides on a Specialized Turbo (in colder weather, at least?). He kinda startled me by quietly gliding up next to me on a downhill, but he did very graciously let me draft him from Hunter Mill to his turn off in Vienna. Once we stopped chatting we basically held a steady 25mph the whole way which was apparently pretty casual for him. (Don't worry, there wasn't any traffic to speak of and I used my bell to warn the few walkers we did pass.)

    Apparently I got a few top 10s. Wow, I'm 7/11,680 from Hunter Mill to Ayr Hill! ... Aaaand now I see that my friend who rides the Turbo has the KOM. I think that pretty much closes the book on the question of whether there are "plenty of roadies" that can ride just as fast as e-bikes.

    I'll go do the right thing and remove myself from those leaderboards now.
    Last edited by hozn; 11-01-2017 at 08:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Meatmotor View Post
    I've argued this point before, but this BB seems to vastly overestimate speed. I went back and looked at the last (miserable) TT I did, and I averaged 23.6mph over 12 miles, rolling terrain. Just because one can hit 30mph on a downhill doesn't make it safe for everyone to ride bikes at a 25mph (or even 20mph!) average speed around here.
    Out of curiosity, I looked at some average speeds for 2017. These are all based on total miles in 2017 divided by total hours ridden in 2017.
    Harry is at 17.9 which is pretty darn good.
    Hozn (who I also consider to be fast) is at 14.9. (I imagine this is influenced by kidical rides)
    Subby (Who I also think of as a fast rider) is at 14.9
    My average speed in 2017 is 13.48. (Interestingly enough, this is a decrease from 13.8 in 2016 and 14.0 in 2015 so maybe I count as elderly and being in need of an e-bike to keep up with my more youthful speeds)

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    Average speeds are affected by so much that I'd drive myself crazy looking at them.

    Anecdotal, but yesterday approaching the airport on the MVT, an eBike was approaching me from the other direction, cutting across the fields. He was going ridiculously fast and coming right toward me, and I actually braked and we did the zig-zag thing a bit. When he passed, I noted that he had full-on face mask (60 degrees out). He looked like a motorcycle rider who was pedaling a little bit, and I wondered if it were Halloween because it was just a bit weird and creepy.

    Anyway, I support eBikes on the trails in general, but nothing that can go that fast with no effort. One or two people riding Class 3s may be okay, but if the trails become full of them, regular cyclists, runners, people with children, and dog walkers will all have to go elsewhere; trails like the Custis simply weren't built for that sort of use.

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  12. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd View Post
    Out of curiosity, I looked at some average speeds for 2017. These are all based on total miles in 2017 divided by total hours ridden in 2017.
    Harry is at 17.9 which is pretty darn good.
    Hozn (who I also consider to be fast) is at 14.9. (I imagine this is influenced by kidical rides)
    Subby (Who I also think of as a fast rider) is at 14.9
    My average speed in 2017 is 13.48. (Interestingly enough, this is a decrease from 13.8 in 2016 and 14.0 in 2015 so maybe I count as elderly and being in need of an e-bike to keep up with my more youthful speeds)
    Yes, HarryMM is definitely a faster rider than I am. I know this every time I see him at Hains Point Hammerfest. He can sit out front pulling at the 25+mph for at least half a lap before someone guilts him into rotating; I'm lucky to make it a few hundred yards at that pace.

    Subby is also a faster rider than I am. (We need to add the term "subby'd" to the dictionary, since that's what happens to a ride when he shows up and blows off the front.)

    But, yeah, average speeds are also highly dependent on route. I ride slower pulling the trailer, which is every workday, but that isn't a big portion of my commute. I also take some days (like today) deliberately easy/slowly since I don't usually have rest days during the week.

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    I can't remember if I've mentioned this before, but I'd be interested to read about the decision to keep motorized vehicles off MUPs at the time of their construction. I've often mentioned that the Puch mopeds of my suburban youth are about as capable as a class 2 e-bike, maybe class 3 with some modification. What made planners ban them from trails? Was it just the gas engines? The speed? The noise?

    I don't favor digging up such reasons for reapplication to a new situation 30+ years later. They were of their time and place. But the history -- old committee minutes, planning docs, whatever -- would be interesting to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huskerdont View Post
    He IS a motorcycle rider who was pedaling a little bit...
    FTFY.

    (if it was around 4:15-4:25pm, it's the same dude I see every day...) He wears actual moto leathers. And he really doesn't like getting held up behind ped traffic on the 14th St. ped bridge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post

    I also take some days (like today) deliberately easy/slowly since I don't usually have rest days during the week.
    Hmmm. I should maybe try this. I take some days undeliberately slow because I'm exhausted, but I'm thinking the steady decline in my average speed is from not taking any days off.

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