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Thread: e-Bikes - Let's talk

  1. #1071
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewey View Post
    Thanks to @huskerdont for posting this in the dockless bikeshare thread, e-scooters are being distributed around metro stations in DC. Popville commenter suggests they cannot be classed as a personal mobility device like a Segway because the wheels are in tandem hence not permitted in bike lanes.
    They seem to fall into a definition gap in DC law. If it had a seat or saddle, it'd clearly be a motor-driven cycle. Since it doesn't...it doesn't seem to be defined in the handy matrix DC of "non-traditional motor vehicles" has put out there, so by default, would be considered a motor vehicle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post
    I'm surprised by those numbers. I spend about twice that many calories to bike 30 miles.

    I am quoting Dasgeh's source. I am sure it varies with speed and conditions. IIUC human powered biking is not necessarily at its most energy efficient at the speeds/kwlevels many people on this forum ride at. Of course those slower speeds where human powered biking is most energy efficient, may not be viable for commutes past a certain length. Which gets us back to the question of where biking fits in the multimodal future scheme. Most transportation planners, as far as I can tell, focus on biking serving a sweet spot between 1 mile and 5 miles or so. Maybe a bit longer. (BTW, those concerned about the GHG effect of incremental food for riding might also want to consider the incremental food for walking - which is uses about the same KW level as slow biking, but gets a third or less miles out of it - are we making a mistake to encourage walking for transportation? Or do my points above - that the food usage for transportation is NOT often incremental, because few people are at their optimum weight without exercise) For commutes in excess of 10 miles, where slow biking is not really viable, and where faster biking (with higher calorie burn per mile) is needed for human powered biking, may be the ebike sweet spot. But then we might want to address the issues raised above - can ebikes (which will still be illegal on limited access highways, and likely not used much on arterials with speeds of 40MPH or higher, and so still impacted heavily by regular stops at lights, etc and which still leave exposure to the elements) get enough share at those distances to make as big an impact as claimed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    can ebikes (which will still be illegal on limited access highways, and likely not used much on arterials with speeds of 40MPH or higher, and so still impacted heavily by regular stops at lights, etc and which still leave exposure to the elements) get enough share at those distances to make as big an impact as claimed?
    no, but don't try to tell the evangelists

  4. #1074
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    [...] Most transportation planners, as far as I can tell, focus on biking serving a sweet spot between 1 mile and 5 miles or so. Maybe a bit longer. [...] For commutes in excess of 10 miles, where slow biking is not really viable, and where faster biking (with higher calorie burn per mile) is needed for human powered biking, may be the ebike sweet spot. But then we might want to address the issues raised above - can ebikes (which will still be illegal on limited access highways, and likely not used much on arterials with speeds of 40MPH or higher, and so still impacted heavily by regular stops at lights, etc and which still leave exposure to the elements) get enough share at those distances to make as big an impact as claimed?
    I tend to see ebikes as extend the biking "sweet spot" from 5 miles to 10 miles. But if all origins/destinations of less than 10 miles are connected by safe and comfortable bike infra, then it stands to reason that all origins/destinations of any distance will be so connected. So if folks wanted to go more than 10 miles, they could without using arterials.

    As far as the elements, plenty of folks have noticed that gear can deal with the elements. And, as noted, ebikes make it easier to deal with temperature. Yeah, it's a bit of a pain to bike in the rain, but it's also a pain to deal with traffic and parking in the rain. It's a trade-off that plenty of people have been willing to make to take Metro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    no, but don't try to tell the evangelists
    Have you heard the good word about Jump Bikes? When you sign up now with offer code Jump4Judd you get four free 30 minute rides! Go forth and electrify!

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    Washington State latest to pass the ebike model legislation creating a 3-tier classification and permitting Class 1 & 2 riding on sidewalks. The article indicates this has been passed by 7 states so far and they're lobbying another 8, VA & MD not on the list this year.

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    So I took a Jump Bike for a spin yesterday.

    1. It says in the basket, "class 1 e bike". I hope this leads to users becoming more familiar with the classification

    2. Not sure if it was the wind, the weight of the bike, some problem with the battery, or me not knowing how to best handle the ebike (in particular what gear to be in and when to shift), but I did not feel I got the same boost as I got in December at HP. Maybe I was confusing how the Jump Bikes felt with how the class 3 ebikes felt? I mean the peddle assist did seem to help riding straight into the wind on the flat, and made playing in traffic a bit more comfortable (all on 25MPH streets though) but did not really feel that different than riding my own human powered bike. In particular when I tried to ride it up the hill on 15th street north of W, I was very disappointed - I tried twice and could not make it up the hill (and humiliatingly was passed by a pace line of roadies) I am guessing that the weight of the Jump Bikes makes them relatively unsuitable to powering up hills? Or that I needed to get up to 20MPH first, not really doable on 15th with all the traffic lights and crosswalks? That a regular non-bike share class 1 would perform better?

    3. This contrasts to the experience POTM and I had in Baltimore where she zoomed up (i guess not as steep) hills on Maryland Avenue.

    4. I definitely still got a work out. But it was really windy.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 03-05-2018 at 11:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    I tend to see ebikes as extend the biking "sweet spot" from 5 miles to 10 miles. But if all origins/destinations of less than 10 miles are connected by safe and comfortable bike infra, then it stands to reason that all origins/destinations of any distance will be so connected. So if folks wanted to go more than 10 miles, they could without using arterials.

    As far as the elements, plenty of folks have noticed that gear can deal with the elements. And, as noted, ebikes make it easier to deal with temperature. Yeah, it's a bit of a pain to bike in the rain, but it's also a pain to deal with traffic and parking in the rain. It's a trade-off that plenty of people have been willing to make to take Metro.

    I think ebikes do have a role to play and extending the sweet spot is probably where they have the most advantage. I just want to point out that since many people riding human powered bikes for 6 or 7 miles are not going particularly fast, they are probably getting closer to the cited miles per calorie than to that of the folks who nab KOM's. I am supportive of ebikes as a way to move more people out of cars, and to add to the support for better bike infra and policies. Just not enthused about the implicit argument that ebikes are better for the environment than human powered bikes (which is based on similar assumptions to claims that human powered bikes are not better on GHGs than cars)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    So I took a Jump Bike for a spin yesterday.

    1. It says in the basket, "class 1 e bike". I hope this leads to users becoming more familiar with the classification

    2. Not sure if it was the wind, the weight of the bike, some problem with the battery, or me not knowing how to best handle the ebike (in particular what gear to be in and when to shift), but I did not feel I got the same boost as I got in December at HP. Maybe I was confusing how the Jump Bikes felt with how the class 3 ebikes felt? I mean the peddle assist did seem to help riding straight into the wind on the flat, and made playing in traffic a bit more comfortable (all on 25MPH streets though) but did not really feel that different than riding my own human powered bike. In particular when I tried to ride it up the hill on 15th street north of W, I was very disappointed - I tried twice and could not make it up the hill (and humiliatingly was passed by a pace line of roadies) I am guessing that the weight of the Jump Bikes makes them relatively unsuitable to powering up hills? Or that I needed to get up to 20MPH first, not really doable on 15th with all the traffic lights and crosswalks? That a regular non-bike share class 1 would perform better?

    3. This contrasts to the experience POTM and I had in Baltimore where she zoomed up (i guess not as steep) hills on Maryland Avenue.

    4. I definitely still got a work out. But it was really windy.
    Do you recall if you had a 3 speed or (the relative rare) 8 speed model? From my (very limited) experience, I found it harder to get into the right gear on the 8 speed, especially heading up hills, which led to extra strain in pedaling, tripping the pedal-assist's safety features and resulting in it cutting out the assist part. I managed to replicate that result on the flat, so I figured it was just in how I was riding it. So long as I kept it slow and steady, things were fine.

  10. #1080
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    Towing a trailer on Saturday when it was still windy my 250w motor averaged 17mph going with the wind, 13mph coming back facing the wind, lower powered motors take the edge off, but power does drop off as a battery discharges and experiences voltage sag, my guess is you got it near the end of its charge.
    Last edited by Dewey; 03-05-2018 at 12:51 PM.

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