Likes Likes:  106
Dislikes Dislikes:  3
ELITE ELITE:  18
Page 12 of 16 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 155

Thread: No snow clearing this winter

  1. #111
    rcannon100's Avatar
    rcannon100 is offline Puppies! Puppies! Puppies! Puppies! Puppies!
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    "a minefield of dumb games and social cliques badly disguised as a forum for DC bike advocacy."
    Posts
    4,490
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NickBull View Post
    So given that there were 900 cyclists using the Custis in January, as cited by rcannon, that amounts to $3.80 per cyclist (maybe some cyclists are double-counted, but if the paths were cleared regularly there would also likely be more cyclists).
    Just one correction. The bike counter counts "bikes." And it can count the same bike twice. As I said, it is safe to assume that a signficant percentage of those counted were both to-and-from commuters. So its not 900 cyclists; its 900 bikes trips counted. Is that 450 cyclists? 500?

    Another point would be that is the bike count on the east end of the trail, where the count is probably the highest. Out on the west end, I will guess, its signficantly lower. That is something someone can go look at and see. The point here is that the 900 count is good for only that point in the trail - not the full custis trail. I think you are using the 900 count and saying, okay, make that 900 count pay for snow removal for the entire trail.... when the cyclist may have only ride 1/2 mile of the custis.

  2. #112
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Annandale
    Posts
    211
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NickBull View Post
    No it isn't. It's based on paying someone $60 an hour to drive a self-propelled snowblower that handles 83 tons per hour. The calculations involving hand-shoveling are to figure out how much snow is 83 tons.
    What about capital costs? Fuel?

    83 tons per hour is the published capacity provided by the manufacturer, how often is that correct even under optimal conditions? Is that for the wet snow we get here, or for the nice light powder in the mountains?

  3. #113
    DismalScientist is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Westover Beer Garden
    Posts
    2,647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NickBull View Post
    No it isn't. It's based on paying someone $60 an hour to drive a self-propelled snowblower that handles 83 tons per hour. The calculations involving hand-shoveling are to figure out how much snow is 83 tons.
    You are correct. Can one find a contractor willing to clear the Custis for $540? I would think putting a plow on a Bobcat would be more appropriate than a walking snowblower. The marginal cost based on labor depends on the labor's alternative use. I have no idea how the county would place a budgetary cost for this. They can't seem to plow public areas (sidewalks around schools, etc) even though the cost considerations are similar.

  4. #114
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Annandale
    Posts
    211
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jabberwocky View Post
    The economic loss (from lost productivity and taxes) you incur by having everyone just stay home would be orders of magnitude greater than the costs of just clearing the roads. Not to mention the costs of greatly increased accident rates and loss of life/injuries from those accidents.
    You honestly think that the state of Virginia stands to lose $55 million dollars in revenues due to snow annually if they do not clear the roads?

    As far as accident rates. In my opinion they would go down if people didn't have an expectation that the roads will be cleared and chose not to make the trip at all.

  5. #115
    DismalScientist is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Westover Beer Garden
    Posts
    2,647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattAune View Post
    You honestly think that the state of Virginia stands to lose $55 million dollars in revenues due to snow annually if they do not clear the roads?
    Yes. Some of us have real jobs. Well, not me, but some of us do.

  6. #116
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Leesburg, VA
    Posts
    1,432
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Reston (which does clear all 55 miles of its paths) uses a mix of small plows and snowblowers. Plows seem to be for the bulk of the paths, and snowblowers for the smaller, narrower ones. I think the reston association has 4 bombardier sidewalk plows as their main fleet.

    Their policy is they clear the paths anytime more than 2" of snow falls. They get out there day or night as soon as it gets that deep. During the snowmageddon storm in 2010, they had the paths clear before Vdot even had a lot of the side roads taken care of.

  7. #117
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Leesburg, VA
    Posts
    1,432
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattAune View Post
    You honestly think that the state of Virginia stands to lose $55 million dollars in revenues due to snow annually if they do not clear the roads?
    Uh, yeah? Without a doubt? I'd bet that shutting down just NoVA for one day would equal that. In state budget terms, 55 million is nothing. If people aren't working, they aren't earning money. If they aren't earning money, they aren't paying taxes and they certainly aren't buying stuff.

    EDIT: During the 2010 storm, the government was shut down because snow couldn't be removed fast enough. The Office of Personnel Management director said the cost to the government in lost work was $100 million per day. Thats for 230,000 federal workers. What would the cost be for the 6+million people who live in VA over an entire winter of storms?
    http://content.time.com/time/nation/...963519,00.html

    Quote Originally Posted by MattAune View Post
    As far as accident rates. In my opinion they would go down if people didn't have an expectation that the roads will be cleared and chose not to make the trip at all.
    How realistic is that?
    Last edited by jabberwocky; 11-07-2013 at 03:11 PM.

  8. #118
    lordofthemark's Avatar
    lordofthemark is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    The forgotten corner of Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    3,321
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    back of the envelope

    Nat Assoc of bike dealers says total sales of bikes, parts, accessories is about $6 billion. Pro rating that on population I get $150 million in Va. Applying the 5.3% sales tax thats about 8 million dollars a year (and does not reflect public health, environmental or other benefits - its just a "trust fund" kind of calculation) I guess not everyone sees sales taxes on bike stuff as the moral equivalent of the gas tax (since cars are also subject to sales taxes - but then do we want to get into the sales taxes on food that cyclists eat? if we dont eat more incrementally, then thats just cause we are more efficient)

    Is more than 8 million a year spent in Va by the state and localities on bike only (including the bike share of offroad MUTs)?

  9. #119
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Now mostly Manhattan (NYC) with time in Dominion Hills
    Posts
    5,665
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    ... (since cars are also subject to sales taxes ...
    Isn't the sales tax on cars lower than that on bikes?

  10. #120
    DismalScientist is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Westover Beer Garden
    Posts
    2,647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jabberwocky View Post
    The Office of Personnel Management director said the cost to the government in lost work was $100 million per day. Thats for 230,000 federal workers. What would the cost be for the 6+million people who live in VA over an entire winter of storms?
    We still got paid. So, cost to the state of Virginia of federal workers relaxing at home: 0.

    As for sales taxes, some are delayed by the snow, but not lost.

    What about the added sales tax on toilet paper sales?

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •