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Thread: Observations at Lynn St. & the Custis

  1. #11
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    Amen, brother. I've nearly been hit several times and have seen EMTs take people away all too many times. It is shameful that Arlington Cty lets this go on after so many people have been hurt.

  2. #12
    mstone is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Cite? I don't have my cites either, but I believe there was something from VDOT indicating the ambiguity.
    What the Code says is:

    Whenever pedestrian control signals exhibiting the words, numbers, or symbols meaning "Walk" or "Don't Walk" are in place such signals shall indicate and apply to pedestrians as follows:

    Walk. - Pedestrians facing such signal may proceed across the highway in the direction of the signal and shall be given the right-of-way by the drivers of all vehicles.

    Don't Walk. - No pedestrian shall start to cross the highway in the direction of such signal, but any pedestrian who has partially completed his crossing on the Walk signal shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety island and remain there while the Don't Walk signal is showing.
    The "walk" signal is generally the happy white walking stick figure, and the "don't walk" is the menacing red hand. There's nothing in the Code about walking while the don't walk stick figure is blinking. The instruction manual attached to the sign post typically says something like "do not enter crosswalk, complete crossing if already in the crosswalk" next to the picture of the red hand with the numbers. Yes, common sense says that if you can make it across during the countdown there's no reason not to do so, but that's not what the Code says.

    Edit to add: note the Code says that pedestrians shall be given the right of way, so if the drivers can scofflaw, so can I!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    What the Code says is:



    The "walk" signal is generally the happy white walking stick figure, and the "don't walk" is the menacing red hand. There's nothing in the Code about walking while the don't walk stick figure is blinking. The instruction manual attached to the sign post typically says something like "do not enter crosswalk, complete crossing if already in the crosswalk" next to the picture of the red hand with the numbers. Yes, common sense says that if you can make it across during the countdown there's no reason not to do so, but that's not what the Code says.

    Edit to add: note the Code says that pedestrians shall be given the right of way, so if the drivers can scofflaw, so can I!
    Since the code clearly refers to pedestrians, I'll continue to follow the vehicular signal while on a bicycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    The law is silent on the issue. It was written before countdown signals were instituted, and only references "red", which, at the time of writing, referred to steady red.
    Thanks. I have never been sure about this. They really ought to make it clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cephas View Post
    Since the code clearly refers to pedestrians, I'll continue to follow the vehicular signal while on a bicycle.
    Then you can't be in the crosswalk. If you are using the crosswalk, you're a pedestrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cephas View Post
    Since the code clearly refers to pedestrians, I'll continue to follow the vehicular signal while on a bicycle.
    But the code also says that cyclists using a crosswalk are subject to the same rights and responsibilities as pedestrians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    The "walk" signal is generally the happy white walking stick figure, and the "don't walk" is the menacing red hand. There's nothing in the Code about walking while the don't walk stick figure is blinking.
    Seems to me a blinking "Don't Walk" signal is still a "Don't Walk" signal.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    What the Code says is:



    The "walk" signal is generally the happy white walking stick figure, and the "don't walk" is the menacing red hand. There's nothing in the Code about walking while the don't walk stick figure is blinking. The instruction manual attached to the sign post typically says something like "do not enter crosswalk, complete crossing if already in the crosswalk" next to the picture of the red hand with the numbers. Yes, common sense says that if you can make it across during the countdown there's no reason not to do so, but that's not what the Code says.

    Edit to add: note the Code says that pedestrians shall be given the right of way, so if the drivers can scofflaw, so can I!
    Thanks. That's 46.2-925. Pedestrian control signals for those who were wondering.

    However, I don't think the best argument is that a blinking red hand with a countdown is a symbol meaning "Don't Walk". If that were the clear interpretation, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I see where the argument comes from, I just don't think it's the best one. Unless you know of some other authority that applies, I don't think the issue is settled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Thanks. That's 46.2-925. Pedestrian control signals for those who were wondering.

    However, I don't think the best argument is that a blinking red hand with a countdown is a symbol meaning "Don't Walk". If that were the clear interpretation, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I see where the argument comes from, I just don't think it's the best one. Unless you know of some other authority that applies, I don't think the issue is settled.
    I think it's pretty settled unless you want to argue that a red hand is a walk signal, in opposition to the instructions on the signal.

    There is a difference between thinking something is stupid and pretending the code says what we think it should say.

    Also, if cited, I will probably argue that I started crossing when the don't walk signal was not illuminated (during the off cycle of the blink phase). I don't actually expect that to work, though.
    Last edited by mstone; 09-16-2013 at 12:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Thanks. That's 46.2-925. Pedestrian control signals for those who were wondering.

    However, I don't think the best argument is that a blinking red hand with a countdown is a symbol meaning "Don't Walk". If that were the clear interpretation, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I see where the argument comes from, I just don't think it's the best one. Unless you know of some other authority that applies, I don't think the issue is settled.
    It may not be clear the to the average Joe on the street, but I think it's very clear once you examine it in excruciating detail like we do.

    Don't Walk means don't walk, unless you've already started to walk. The countdown, added later, was meant for those who have already started to walk, to tell them how much time they have to get across.

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