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Thread: My Morning Commute

  1. #6681
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    Had an interesting argument with an e-scooter ride this morning on the MVT.

    Mr. E passes me on a small hill and proceeds to sit about 3 feet in front of me, not speeding up or slowing down, with another cyclist about 5 feet in front of him. Going up the first airport overpass, Mr. E. moves right alongside the cyclist ahead of me, but doesn't pass. So he's now in the left (oncoming) lane as he goes up the overpass. Fortunately no one was coming the other direction and on the downhill, cyclist ahead speeds up and I'm now waiting my chance to pass Mr. E.

    Next downhill I pass him and think I've lost him, when lo and behold, he comes right up next to me a little later and passes, again barely getting in front of me. So, we're now in close talking distance.

    Me:"You need to learn how to ride that thing when you pass"
    E: "I know how to ride it. I'm going the exact same speed."
    Me:"You can't do that when there's other people around."
    E:"I'm going the exact same speed."
    Me:"That's the problem! You have to adjust your speed when there's other people around."
    E:I'm going the exact same speed. Just like driving on the highway."
    Me: (huh?) "I hope you don't drive a car."
    at which point, my throat is so cold from yelling as mr. self-centered, I let him pass for good.

    Conclusion? I will go my 15 mph (or whatever) regardless of anyone else out here and you all just have to adapt to me and my little scooter's speed.

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  3. #6682
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    Like the person driving 55mph in the far left lane.

    Quote Originally Posted by gibby View Post
    Had an interesting argument with an e-scooter ride this morning on the MVT.

    Mr. E passes me on a small hill and proceeds to sit about 3 feet in front of me, not speeding up or slowing down, with another cyclist about 5 feet in front of him. Going up the first airport overpass, Mr. E. moves right alongside the cyclist ahead of me, but doesn't pass. So he's now in the left (oncoming) lane as he goes up the overpass. Fortunately no one was coming the other direction and on the downhill, cyclist ahead speeds up and I'm now waiting my chance to pass Mr. E.

    Next downhill I pass him and think I've lost him, when lo and behold, he comes right up next to me a little later and passes, again barely getting in front of me. So, we're now in close talking distance.

    Me:"You need to learn how to ride that thing when you pass"
    E: "I know how to ride it. I'm going the exact same speed."
    Me:"You can't do that when there's other people around."
    E:"I'm going the exact same speed."
    Me:"That's the problem! You have to adjust your speed when there's other people around."
    E:I'm going the exact same speed. Just like driving on the highway."
    Me: (huh?) "I hope you don't drive a car."
    at which point, my throat is so cold from yelling as mr. self-centered, I let him pass for good.

    Conclusion? I will go my 15 mph (or whatever) regardless of anyone else out here and you all just have to adapt to me and my little scooter's speed.

  4. #6683
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    Talk about making a nuisance of oneself! He wants to go full-tilt on it at all times; whatever it CAN do, that's what he wants.
    Heading up toward Roosevelt island on that trail, there are ruts, waterlogged mud pools, and asphalt swells caused by root heaves that will in turn swallow a scoot wheel, capture it whole, and send a scoot rider airborne.
    A rented e-scooter must live a hard, brief life.
    Last edited by phog; 02-26-2019 at 02:18 PM.

  5. #6684
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    Steve O is offline I spend all day thinking about bikes and talking to people on the internet about them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phog View Post
    A rented e-scooter must live a hard, brief life.
    23 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    The future is single use personal transportation devices. That avoids all the issues with sharing! A drone will drop a brand new scooter wherever you ask for one and at the end of your trip you just throw it out. It's better for the environment because it's one less car.

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  8. #6686
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    lordofthemark is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    The future is single use personal transportation devices. That avoids all the issues with sharing! A drone will drop a brand new scooter wherever you ask for one and at the end of your trip you just throw it out. It's better for the environment because it's one less car.

    the average life of a car per consumer reports is about 8 years - roughly 100 times the life of a dockless e-scooter,

    the average weight of a car, per EPA, is about 4000 pounds. If a dockless e-scooter weighs less than 40 pounds (does it?) than over the lifetime of each, MORE material is used for cars than for all those dockless e-scooters (assuming each dockless escooter in the fleet replaces one car) (note also, one benefit of the short life of e-scooters is that new technologies can be quickly deployed - meanwhile even if every single car purchased from tomorrow on was plug in electric, we would be burdened for years with gasoline powered cars)

    That is ignoring the replacement parts (from wiper blades to tires) the car requires to get to that average life.

    its also ignoring energy usage.

    Or the possibility that more e-scooters will lead to more bike lanes, supporting owned "acoustic" bikes. (note, let's not be too loud about this - on NextDoor in Alexandria one "anti" has already claimed that the dockless pilot is simply a conspiracy to get more bike lanes)

    So, er, yeah.

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  10. #6687
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    the average life of a car per consumer reports is about 8 years - roughly 100 times the life of a dockless e-scooter
    It's actually up over 11 years now. A car is also a large enough resource that at the end of it's life it's worth scrapping. The scooters tend to end up in a landfill or a river or a giant pile of venture capital or something.

    assuming each dockless escooter in the fleet replaces one car
    I think that's a huge and unsupported assumption.

    But the main problem is that you're not factoring in the materials and impact of the drones dropping the scooters.

  11. #6688
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    It's actually up over 11 years now. A car is also a large enough resource that at the end of it's life it's worth scrapping. The scooters tend to end up in a landfill or a river or a giant pile of venture capital or something.



    I think that's a huge and unsupported assumption.

    But the main problem is that you're not factoring in the materials and impact of the drones dropping the scooters.
    The scrapping cars requires a fair amount of energy (as does all the maintenance done on cars quite apart from the parts - have we mentioned lubricating oil yet?) (I also assume that IF scooters ever really get big enough to matter, disposal of them, as well as service lives, will be better addressed than now)

    Obviously the big question about scooters is their net impact on the rest of the transportation system - are they substituting for walking, are they complimentary to transit, do they help enable car free or car lite lifestyles - that's actually a serious thing to debate, unlike the concern about their short service lives.

    As for drones, I had hoped it was clear I was responding to how scooters are actually used today. I mean having autonomous vehicles replace all transit probably won't be good either.

    Note of course, if we priced carbon, than the economics of scooter usage AND car usage (and acoustic bike usage, etc) would REFLECT the full life cycle GHG impacts. It would even reflect the benefits of scooter usage encouraging urban lifestyles, with smaller home sizes leading to lower HVAC, etc. That is the magic of price based solution - it naturally effects ALL impacts, one's we don't even think of, or have trouble estimating. But supporting price based solutions to global warming makes me a neoliberal shill, I guess.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 02-27-2019 at 11:02 AM.

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  13. #6689
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    But supporting price based solutions to global warming makes me a neoliberal shill, I guess.
    Worse, it makes you an economist.

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    https://www.portlandoregon.gov/trans...article/700917

    E-scooters are replacing automobile trips. Thinking of their last e-scooter trip, 34 percent of Portlanders said they would have driven a personal car (19 percent) or hailed a taxi, Uber or Lyft (15 percent).
    The auto trip replacement numbers are even higher among tourists and visitors (48 percent). Thinking of their last e-scooter trip, 34 percent of visitors would have taken a taxi, Uber or Lyft, and 14 percent would have driven a personal vehicle had e-scooters not been available.
    Among all respondents, e-scooters appear to be more popular among men (62 percent) than women (36 percent). In response to the question, “What gender do you identify with?”, 62 percent of respondents said “man”, and 36 respondents said “woman”.
    All respondents – Portlanders and visitors – prefer to ride e-scooters on the street, in the bike lane. Riders’ stated preference was for the bike lane over even off-street trails. Riding on sidewalks was users’ least preferred option.
    E-scooters are bringing new Portlanders to the bike lane. Forty-five percent of survey respondents reported “never” biking and 78 percent had never used BIKETOWN prior to using e-scooters.
    Portlanders are reducing or considering reducing their auto ownership due to e-scooters. Six percent of users report getting rid of a car because of e-scooters and another 16 percent have considered it.

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