Likes Likes:  0
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
ELITE ELITE:  0
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: New East Falls Church bridge over 4MR - Why the bollards??!!

  1. #11
    americancyclo's Avatar
    americancyclo is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,018
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    BTW, the bridge is the fastest way to continue on the W&OD. Just take the trail to Sycamore and 19th. Follow 19th across and turn right on the street after the Metro station. You are back on the W&OD at the top of the hill.
    I'll bet you a beer at the next forum happy hour that the fastest way to continue through across 29 on the W&OD is to take Van Buren to 19th to Vanderpool.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Now mostly Manhattan (NYC) with time in Dominion Hills
    Posts
    5,743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by americancyclo View Post
    I'll bet you a beer at the next forum happy hour that the fastest way to continue through across 29 on the W&OD is to take Van Buren to 19th to Vanderpool.
    I have to agree with you. Why would you want to have to go through that extra stop light at Sycamore if you don't have to?

  3. #13
    DismalScientist is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Westover Beer Garden
    Posts
    2,651
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I haven't tried that route. I make the mistake of following the directional signs. Perhaps I need some electronic equipment on my bike to override traffic signals like ambulances have.

  4. #14
    Steve O's Avatar
    Steve O is offline 5000+ Posts? The first step to beating addiction is admitting you have one.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pentagon City in Arlington VA
    Posts
    5,189
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    "When EFC is redeveloped, the W&OD will be moved to a bridge parallel to I-66, presumably connected to the metro. This will make the trail to Sycamore and the new bridge superfluous."

    Perhaps. That project has been included in the plan, but there is far from any guarantee that it would actually get built (given that VDOT would be involved)--nor do we know how many years from now that might be. I hope it does, because that would eliminate the only on-street section of the W&OD on the entire trail.

  5. #15
    Steve O's Avatar
    Steve O is offline 5000+ Posts? The first step to beating addiction is admitting you have one.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pentagon City in Arlington VA
    Posts
    5,189
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Back to the bollards discussion.

    Here's a thought experiment:
    The bridge was open and usable for a couple of weeks prior to the installation of the bollards. If it had remained that way, do you think there would have been requests to install them? Would anyone have even imagined they were missing? I believe trail users thought the project was essentially complete and, like me, were caught by surprise by the sudden appearance of bollards that serve no purpose. If they hadn't magically appeared, this thread would not exist.

    I personally saw no threads here on the forum or anywhere regarding that bridge that suggested it was incomplete without having bollards placed on it. Nor would one have ever been created.

    If we think bollards are an appropriate way to get people to slow down at intersections, then why not install them at the intersection of the Custis & W&OD? Or at the Custis Trail milepost 0 where the trail goes under I-66 and the sightlines are blocked by the highway structure? Or at every place the W&OD and 4MR trails diverge and reconverge? Or how about that bridge across the creek in Benjamin Banneker Park; that's an almost exact analogy; why no bollard there? I could come up with dozens of trail intersections where it would be good for cyclists to slow down, but I hardly think that warrants installing bollards on all of them.

    So that then begs the question of why this particular trail intersection is special. How is it different and more deserving of bollards than any of the others?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Falls Church
    Posts
    4,472
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hi Steve.

    I want to preface this by saying that I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I mean my comments respectfully and am trying to discuss this in a way that is constructive. The internet is a not perfect way to communicate in that it is difficult to understand tone and inflection. I write this because I want you to know that I completely see where you're coming from.

    I'll also add my usual "Who the hell am I?" disclaimer. I'm just a guy that rides these trails and intersections 2-6 times per day, 250+ days per year. I am virtually ignorant of the planning and execution of transportation infrastructure.

    Bollards everywhere are not the answer. Bollards at that bridge are probably a good thing. They are out of the line of bicycle traffic by 15 feet or more. It isn't a place where bicycles will normally ride. The pedestrian traffic at that bridge have just got off the metro, are probably either walking with headphones on or a cell phone pressed to their ear and they're approaching an area with limited sight lines. A visual reminder that they're about to enter traffic is a very good idea in my book.

    The other intersections you mention, and a bunch that you didn't are definite problem areas, and probably wouldn't be good candidates for bollards because all of the sides of the intersections have relatively high bicycle AND pedestrian traffic. I don't now a good answer for those trails intersections. Well, I do have ideas, but they're utterly ridiculous... they involve consistent enforcement of the laws and rules for cars, pedestrians and bicycles. Not really a practical solution.

    Thank you sincerely for a good discussion.

    Pete

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clarendon (Arlington, VA)
    Posts
    609
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by americancyclo View Post
    I'll bet you a beer at the next forum happy hour that the fastest way to continue through across 29 on the W&OD is to take Van Buren to 19th to Vanderpool.
    Definitely the fastest. You just have to be very careful of the bollard collar at the trail/van buren intersection. That one, plus the unfilled ones on the bluemont trail (where a friend crashed pretty badly at night) make me dislike the collars way more than the bollards themselves.

    Brendan

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clarendon (Arlington, VA)
    Posts
    609
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    So that then begs the question of why this particular trail intersection is special. How is it different and more deserving of bollards than any of the others?
    Short answer: I suspect it is because the park authority was concerned that lost vehicles may see the bridge from the nearby street, drive the short stretch of asphalt around the field and attempt to drive over the bridge and have the bridge collapse.

    Brendan

  9. #19
    KLizotte's Avatar
    KLizotte is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Arlington, VA by way of MA and London, UK
    Posts
    3,656
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brendan View Post
    Definitely the fastest. You just have to be very careful of the bollard collar at the trail/van buren intersection. That one, plus the unfilled ones on the bluemont trail (where a friend crashed pretty badly at night) make me dislike the collars way more than the bollards themselves.

    Brendan
    Are these on Arlington's list to get fixed any time soon?

  10. #20
    Steve O's Avatar
    Steve O is offline 5000+ Posts? The first step to beating addiction is admitting you have one.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pentagon City in Arlington VA
    Posts
    5,189
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Bollards out of ADA compliance?

    Hi Pete,
    No worries; I appreciate your perspective and experience.

    One of the things that is troublesome to me is that where these things go seems totally capricious. I doubt someone could cite a consistent decision making template that would describe why bollards go here and not there.

    Interestingly, it appears that the bollards on the east end of the bridge are out of compliance with the American with Disabilities Act, which states:
    R302.3 Continuous Width. Except as provided in R302.3.1, the continuous clear width of pedestrian access routes shall be 1.2 m (4.0 ft) minimum, exclusive of the width of the curb.

    Advisory R302.3 Continuous Width. The continuous clear width requirements in R302.3 apply to sidewalks and other pedestrian circulation paths, pedestrian street crossings and at-grade rail crossings, and pedestrian overpasses and underpasses and similar structures (see R302.2). Clear width requirements are contained in R304.5.1 for curb ramps and blended transitions, and in R407.4 for ramps. Where sidewalks are wider than 1.2 m (4.0 ft), only a portion of the sidewalk is required to comply with the requirements in R302.3 through R302.7. Additional maneuvering space should be provided at turns or changes in direction, transit stops, recesses and alcoves, building entrances, and along curved or angled routes, particularly where the grade exceeds 5 percent. R210 prohibits street furniture and other objects from reducing the minimum clear width of pedestrian access routes.


    Also, it appears that at least one cyclist has already struck the base of one of the bollards, deduced from markings on the base itself, and they've been there less than a week. I'd be surprised if that person did not fall down, even at low speed. I don't like using dangerous, crash-causing objects for speed control.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •