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Thread: Question about law concerning two cyclists riding abreast

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    But the chicken (or the egg) is progressing (or something like that; metaphors schmetaphors). There are a lot more people on bikes than there used to be, and I find that many drivers are accommodating. Not 100% by any means, but my personal observation is that it's much better now than, say, 1999...or 2009.
    yes and no; it's very place-dependent. if you're in an place where vdot has built stroads to "upgrade" smaller roads or even dirt roads that existed 20 years ago things have gotten much, much worse. there's probably at least another 15 years of loudoun & pwc getting worse already baked into long term plans (apart from very focused higher density development areas).

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  3. #42
    lordofthemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaCynic View Post
    "Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man."

    Henry Adams
    "Trolling internet bike forums is a huge waste of time"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    "Trolling internet bike forums is a huge waste of time"

    Abe Lincoln
    Of course. One should avoid doing so and refrain from mis-quoting others.

  5. 05-06-2021, 08:34 PM

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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    This. The double yellow is used at least here in Virginia on any local road with a traffic volume over a certain number of cars per day. On such roads you will never find a broken double yellow line indicating a passing zone. It is quite common on this sort of road for things like trash trucks or lawn service trucks or any number of things to block the lane. And guess what--drivers do not just sit there unable to go because they fear to cross the double yellow line. The meaning of the double yellow in this case is "you're on a 25MPH neighborhood road, there's never a reason to pass another car because you want to go faster so just slow down" not "there isn't enough visibility to pass safely". (And yet, for some reason, drivers panic and have absolutely no idea what to do when there's a cyclist. The only fix for this is more cyclists so it's a common thing not a novel experience. Unfortunately it's a chicken/egg problem because a lot of people don't want to bike where the drivers are clueless--or where, as a driver, they'd freak out if they saw a cyclist.)

    Thanks. Your post makes a lot of sense. Besides the two roads I mentioned in my previous post, I've now come across a third with a double yellow line. And come to think of it, given the speed limits, there is generally no reason for a car to pass another moving car on these roads. There is of course a reason to pass a much slower moving cyclist. This requires that the motorist have good visibility and cross the double yellow line to have sufficient space between him and the cyclist.

  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaCynic View Post
    Of course. One should avoid doing so and refrain from mis-quoting others.
    "If you think someone quoting me about the internet is actually misleading people about what I said, you might need to reflect a bit"

    Abe Lincoln

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    That's the problem. On the streets I mentioned in my post, there is a double yellow line throughout their entirety, whether or not there is sufficient visibility to pass. The double yellow line on these streets is not being used as a guide when to and not to pass.
    Ah, I get your point now.

    It's possible that the traffic engineers know something you don't, or that they're being overzealous.

  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by baiskeli View Post
    Ah, I get your point now.

    It's possible that the traffic engineers know something you don't, or that they're being overzealous.

    Maybe I will go out hunting for this, but from my recall, and a bit of checking on google street veiews, I believe MStone is correct. Two lane roads in built up suburbs (at least around ALX and Arlco, and probably elsewhere in the region) and in cities, simply do not get dashed yellow lines regardless of road geometry. The choice is either a double yellow or no center line at all, depending on the nature of the street. If the expected volume is above a certain level they stripe the double yellow.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 05-07-2021 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    Maybe I will go out hunting for this, but from my recall, and a bit of checking on google street veiews, I believe MStone is correct. Two lane roads in built up suburbs (at least around ALX and Arlco, and probably elsewhere in the region) and in cities, simply do not get dashed yellow lines regardless of road geometry. The choice is either a double yellow or no center line at all, depending on the nature of the street. If the expected volume is above a certain level they stripe the double yellow.
    I'm sure MStone is correct. I've been paying attention on my rides in Montgomery County. Less traveled streets have no marking in the cernter. More heavily used streets all have double yellow lines. I also discovered that in October Maryland passed a law that a) required cars to have at least 3 feet of space when passing cyclists and b) allows cars to cross the double yellow line when passing cyclists. (https://bikeaaa.org/2020/10/02/3-foo...ryland%20roads!) (I started this discussion by describing my conversation with a policeman, who said I was impeding traffic because cars had to cross the double yellow line to pass - he was clearly wrong. Even though I was riding next to another rider, I was well toward the right side of the road. And even if I had been on the shoulder, cars still would have been required to cross the yellow line to pass).

  12. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I'm sure MStone is correct. I've been paying attention on my rides in Montgomery County. Less traveled streets have no marking in the cernter. More heavily used streets all have double yellow lines. I also discovered that in October Maryland passed a law that a) required cars to have at least 3 feet of space when passing cyclists and b) allows cars to cross the double yellow line when passing cyclists. (https://bikeaaa.org/2020/10/02/3-foo...ryland%20roads!) (I started this discussion by describing my conversation with a policeman, who said I was impeding traffic because cars had to cross the double yellow line to pass - he was clearly wrong. Even though I was riding next to another rider, I was well toward the right side of the road. And even if I had been on the shoulder, cars still would have been required to cross the yellow line to pass).
    Maryland and Virginia having the same law should simplify things for motorists 😉


    I paid more attention in my weekend rides, and also note that in Alexandria and Arlington it appears double yellow is mostly striped based on volume, not on road geometry.

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