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Thread: VDOT Release on Custis-W&OD Roundabout Completion

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    Default VDOT Release on Custis-W&OD Roundabout Completion

    Press Release here.

    Of note, still needs lights installed.

    Also, bottom of release notes the W&OD bridge over Lee Highway won't open until January 2021.

    Henry

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    I wonder what the accident incident comparison will look like before/after death trap installment


    Sent from Boomer_Cycles via my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer2U View Post

    I wonder what the accident incident comparison will look like before/after death trap installment


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    Perhaps Iím missing something here but I rode through here a week ago and I thought it did exactly what it was supposed to do: separate and slow traffic through this intersection. I had no trouble navigating it and didnít find it awkward or troublesome. You shouldnít be flying through there in either direction as (1) itís a blind intersection; and (2) itís within the park and adjacent to areas where children and families are gathering. I think this is much ado about nothing. But I suppose only time will tell.


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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarkentien View Post
    Perhaps Iím missing something here but I rode through here a week ago and I thought it did exactly what it was supposed to do: separate and slow traffic through this intersection. I had no trouble navigating it and didnít find it awkward or troublesome. You shouldnít be flying through there in either direction as (1) itís a blind intersection; and (2) itís within the park and adjacent to areas where children and families are gathering. I think this is much ado about nothing. But I suppose only time will tell.


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    Try navigating it on a tandem or long tail with kids in the back, then see how you feel about it.

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    Steve O is offline 5000+ Posts? The first step to beating addiction is admitting you have one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer2U View Post

    And what's with the arrow that directs you to ride across the circle?

    I don't think this is actually dangerous if used as the designers were hoping people would> Except the awkward design will lead some cyclists to cut the corner, creating potential head-on collision opportunities. I drew a crude rendering of what I believe to be a much better design on an earlier thread, also shown here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    I'll have to check it out, but I think a circle seems like a round peg in a slightly ovalized hole or something.

    I can imagine something that functions like the circle but is not shaped like it, more like an elongated triangle. What the designers missed was that 90%+ of the traffic is the Custis and only a small fraction will use the south-side detour route. That's just a neighborhood connector, really.

    Attachment 21679

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    There are better pictures at the link that the OP provided, which include "Yield" on the pavement:

    http://www.virginiadot.org/newsroom/...d12-4-2020.asp

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    The arrows are poorly drawn, but overall, it's no different from the little traffic islands designed to slow down traffic on places like Key. Motorists complain about those because they have to slow down and be careful, and of course some won't be careful, but surely we're better than that?

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    But wait! There's more!

    The project includes lighting as well. The plan is to install a bunch (five) of light poles in the immediate vicinity of the circle. I'd posit that the area is likely to be overlit.

    Big concern is a proposed light pole on the inside of the turn for westbound cyclists coming out of the underpass. That pretty much leaves no room for maneuver (light pole on the right and the raised curb of the circle's island on the left. A cyclist coming out of the tunnel meeting a walker or cyclist salmoning in the circle may have no safe bail-out options. That inside corner is likely to be pretty congested as a wayfinding sign is up as well.

    My comments to Arlington DES and BikeArlington are below:

    "I took a look at the plans for the lights at the circle and recommend the fixture marked Pole CCI5P-02 be moved or eliminated. It is at the "pivot point" for westbound cyclists and presents a collision hazard. I've observed eastbound cyclists entering the circle clockwise (an artifact of the circle design) and if a westbound cyclist is caught by surprise, this pole creates a hazard as it eliminates the ability to bail out to the edge of the trail. I'd expect that the circle will be brighter than any other part of the trail so eliminating one light may not have any significant impact. If the decision is to not eliminate the fixture, moving it back to the wall (supporting the roadway above) would also work. Please do not create an obstacle at trail's edge.

    Even if there are no oncoming cyclists, the fixture is located at a point where maneuvering is required and we shouldn't make that location any more demanding."



    Custis Trail Lighting Plan - 0066-96A-417 C501_026(15)_r12.pdf
    Last edited by dbb; 12-22-2020 at 08:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huskerdont View Post
    The arrows are poorly drawn, but overall, it's no different from the little traffic islands designed to slow down traffic on places like Key. Motorists complain about those because they have to slow down and be careful, and of course some won't be careful, but surely we're better than that?
    You're arguing a strawman in a way that's frankly insulting to a number of people who have not historically shown signs of arguing facilities on the basis of personal convenience rather than safety. The issue isn't that people have to slow down, it's that they have to slow down in a confusing and poorly engineered manner (or not--this doesn't really stop anyone from flying through). On roads there are standards that have to be met for things like "little traffic islands", based on lessons learned over time. On trails there are some standards but they're generally ignored (bollards!) and as far as we can tell, whoever is assigned to the job as a low priority (compared to road projects) basically makes something up based on what they think looks good. Steve O's proposal above is an example of something that might address the problem more safely--if only the powers that be used the public comment period to actually solicit and react to feedback from users instead of treating it as a waste of time to get past as quickly as possible. But no, they have road projects which sometimes have a trail attached, and you'll take what they give you, shut up, and say thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    You're arguing a strawman in a way that's frankly insulting to a number of people who have not historically shown signs of arguing facilities on the basis of personal convenience rather than safety.
    "Strawman"--I don't think you understand what that term means, and apparently you get insulted far too easily. No one is going to run over the center island because the arrow is poorly done, and others having to slow down a bit when you yourself probably would have anyway doesn't make it more unsafe. I've gone through here a number of times now; it is safer than it was. It was an area that deserved caution before, and it does so now as well, but now there are indicators to that effect. Just because they didn't do exactly what you wanted them to does not make it terrible.

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