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Thread: Upcoming Micromobility Ordinance will also regulate e-bikes

  1. #31
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    Rather than passing laws to regulate behavior that is not easily/seldom enforced, I suggest instead mandating that scooter/Ebike operators/bike shops require new registrants/potential buyers to visit a particular county web page. That page would post guidelines(like in my post here is this thread) in how to behave around pedestrians, and that failure to follow these guidelines could results in new laws restricting or prohibiting certain devices or activities.

    Many cyclists/scooters copy what others are doing in what I call "deducing laws by the way they are enforced". At least with a guideline document you could train new comers to a better safer behavior. Another reason things are bad the way they are is that not everyone who cycles/scoots knows this forum, so they are not aware they are doing anything wrong. The link to this forum is not easy to spot at http://www.bikearlington.com/ Can you find it?(It's the green icon on top of the page)

    Edited to add: At least with this approach we reduce the statistics of abuse/misuse, we gain something without spending a penny, and without burdening those who ride safely around pedestrians.
    Last edited by n18; 11-05-2019 at 10:49 AM.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    The problem is, that isn't what the sign communicates. It says that you're perfectly ok going 15MPH (+ the 10MPH courtesy window) which is flat out dangerous on a crowded trail. If the intent is to encourage safe trail use, then the implementation should align with that goal--not slap on a speed limit so that bikes have to "follow the same rules as cars" even though the concerns and vehicles are more different than the same. (A speed limit sign for a car is greatly restrictive--a 20MPH bike speed limit would be like a 120MPH car speed limit, and how many of those do you see in the area?) I would love to see ideas for legislating safe behavior (rather than arbitrary and capricous restrictions that don't really enhance safety) but it seems that it's really hard to do so (and the concern dasgeh raised about selective/harassing enforcement is huge when it comes to things that boil down to using good judgment).
    Yes, I see your point. I can see that speed limits are most practical on routes that simply bar certain types of transportation (e.g., no pedestrians walking down Wilson Blvd, no bicycles on the highway, no cars on the Mt Vernon Trail). If the route is truly multi-use, speed limits would have to be set very low. Like 10mph on busy sections. Which I think most here would be unwilling to stomach. As you point out, if the limit is set at a higher speed that is more accommodating of bikes and e-vehicles, it could endanger slower users if read without context or judgment.

    Whether there are signs or not, as ebikes become more common, the average speed on the trails is going to go up; I think we can all admit that its a lot more common to be passed by an ebike that to pass one. Perhaps pedestrians and slower cyclists will acclimate and feel comfortable sharing the path with faster vehicles than they do now. Maybe where it's practical pedestrians will simply tread desire paths alongside the trail to stay out of harms way, or the path can be widened in some spots to separate modes. Essentially, bike paths for pedestrians. And some people will probably just stop using the MUPs because they don't feel safe on it, the way some people won't bike without separate infrastructure.

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  5. #33
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    ShawnoftheDread is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Yep, there. Chief Farr claims the lane is 12 feet wide, and reasons that a bike is 3', an average car 6', so there's room for a car to pass with a 3' buffer if a bike is as far right as possible. He claims that it is better for the bike to be right so that a car will pass on the right side of the double yellow, because there is a blind hill. I disagree.

    It has yet to be brought up... I've been mulling possibilities.
    It seems to me that for his math to work the bike would have to be actually on the curb, so it also seems to me that ďchiefĒ Farr is a moron.

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  7. 11-05-2019, 07:44 PM


  8. #34
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    rcannon100 is offline Puppies! Puppies! Puppies! Puppies! Puppies!
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    My recent experience with Arlpopo:

    ME: Rents zipcar from on-street parking spot labeled "Zipcar only"

    ALSO ME: Returns zipcar to find parking spot blocked by other car share

    ZIPCAR: It's our spot. You can have the car towed.

    ARLCO: It's zipcar's spot. You can have the car towed.

    ARLPOPO: Oh no.... any carshare can park there

    ME: <points to "zipcar only" sign>

    ARLPOPO: But on this other sign it says any authorized car share can park here

    ME: Is the other car authorized?

    ARLPOPO: <crickets>

    ARLPOPO: We're not towing.

  9. #35
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    My recent experience with ARLPOPO:

    ME: My residential street has no sidewalks and cars speed. Can you do some traffic calming.

    ARLPOPO: We did a study of traffic on your speed. Based on the average speed of cars on your street, cars do not speed excessively and we are not doing anything

    ME: <Bangs head against wall>

    ALSO ME: Did you happen to take statistics during whatever schooling it was you went to?


    (The average speed is irrelevant. What is relevant.... is the deviation.... or.... its not relevant how many cars go the correct speed. What is relevant is how many cars speed. If the deviation is significant - if there are lots of cars that speed - then you have a problem. If you look at the average, the average can mask speeders with those cars going less than the speed limit - and yes bc we are a residential street with some through traffic and some terminating traffic, the terminating traffic tends to be going quite slow).

    I have pretty much given up on ARLPOPO.

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyRider View Post
    I think we can all admit that its a lot more common to be passed by an ebike that to pass one.
    Actually, that is totally the opposite of my personal experience over 21 months of cyclists passing me while on my ebike.

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  13. #37
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    dasgeh is offline Queen of Family Biking & All Things Kidical
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristoB50 View Post
    I think we can all admit that its a lot more common to be passed by an ebike that to pass one.
    Actually, that is totally the opposite of my personal experience over 21 months of cyclists passing me while on my ebike.
    It is also contrary to what NoVa Parks found when they did a study -- they found ebikes were on average slower than pedal bikes.

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  15. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    It is also contrary to what NoVa Parks found when they did a study -- they found ebikes were on average slower than pedal bikes.
    That study on ebike speeds almost certainly was cherry-picked and has no basis in reality on the trails in the area. I routinely get passed by multiple ebikes daily, regardless of what Iím riding, yet can count on one hand the number of ebikes Iíve ever passed. For comparison, I pass several pedal bikes daily, and donít get passed much by pedal bikes unless Iím trailering my kids around.

    With ebikes, regardless if they are riding safely, almost all of them are riding fast or really fast. The only exceptions Iíve seen are the occasional cargo bike and the Bromptoms, as they have a small motor.

  16. #39
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    Ugh. If only that kind of one-color-fits-all paintbrush could be used for good, like repainting my condo.

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  18. #40
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    Perhaps human-powered riders are less likely to notice juiced bikes when passing them than when being passed by them? Ditto for e-bikes where the battery is used for assistance, not as the whole power source?
    Last edited by scoot; 11-07-2019 at 07:55 PM.

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