Likes Likes:  84
Dislikes Dislikes:  1
ELITE ELITE:  0
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 51

Thread: Upcoming Micromobility Ordinance will also regulate e-bikes

  1. #41
    dasgeh's Avatar
    dasgeh is offline Queen of Family Biking & All Things Kidical
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    5,732
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Ah, the ol' "your study must be wrong because my anecdotal observations lead me to a different conclusion"....

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Madison Manor
    Posts
    1,214
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Ah, the ol' "your study must be wrong because my anecdotal observations lead me to a different conclusion"....
    That's funny because you continue to mischaracterize the study to fit your own biases. As I posted on the e-bike thread awhile ago, although the study was done for NVRPA to inform policy for e-bikes on the W&OD, the findings of the study, including regarding speed, are not based on behavior on the W&OD. It just cites a study that found that e-bikes were observed to go faster on roads than analog bikes and slower on a MUP than analog bikes. I'd also note that the cited study also found nearly identical safety behavior between e-bikes and analog bikes. This would dispel the notion that e-bike riders can somehow be expected to be more careful than the rest of us "crazies".

  3. Likes Steve O liked this post
  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Arlington
    Posts
    157
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Ah, the ol' "your study must be wrong because my anecdotal observations lead me to a different conclusion"....
    That study is absolutely worthless for considerations about the W&OD or any other policy around Arlington/DC. That study was done around the University of Tennessee with e-bikes that have a top speed of 15mph - the iZip Trekking Enlightened. Also the "roads" and "shared use paths" in the study are university roads and paths heavily traveled by students, leading to really low speeds in general.

    The average speeds from the study were as follows:


    Vehicle type Average speed (kph) 99th percentile speed (kph)
    On road
    Bicycle 10.5 29.0
    E-bike 13.3 32.0

    Shared use
    Bicycle 12.6 26.0
    E-bike 11.0 25.4

    Keep in mind that these are in kilometers per hours, so in mph we are talking about average speeds less than 9mph, which is entirely irrelevant to anything in this discussion or any other ebike discussion in this area.

  5. #44
    dasgeh's Avatar
    dasgeh is offline Queen of Family Biking & All Things Kidical
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    5,732
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zsionakides View Post
    Keep in mind that these are in kilometers per hours, so in mph we are talking about average speeds less than 9mph, which is entirely irrelevant to anything in this discussion or any other ebike discussion in this area.
    These are at least valid criticisms of the study (and no, sjclaeys, I had not seen any post from you pointing this out before - I took the characterization from NovaParks). Though I don't see how they are completely irrelevant, they seem to indicate behavior within constraints.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Arlington
    Posts
    157
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    These are at least valid criticisms of the study (and no, sjclaeys, I had not seen any post from you pointing this out before - I took the characterization from NovaParks). Though I don't see how they are completely irrelevant, they seem to indicate behavior within constraints.
    A study where students are riding around on campus at 8mph on ebikes capped at 15mph has no relevance on policy for MUPs where typical riders are going ~12-15mph on pedal bikes and ebikes can go 28mph.

    Those on-campus shared use paths the study used are filled with students and are more akin to riding on the sidewalk than an MUP, which is why you see the riding speeds in the 7-8mph range. If you wanted to use that study to infer that ebike riders on sidewalks ride at the same speed as non-powered bikes, that would be reasonable, as the study demonstrates that ebikes slow down a lot in busy, congested corridors as do non-powered riders.

    There's a couple other references in the Nova Parks white paper that show ebikes ride 3-4 kph faster than non-powered bikes on paths in Germany and Sweden, and this is with a cap of 25kph (~15mph) and 250W on the ebikes. With 28mph ebikes being allowed on the MUPs locally, I'd imagine the real speed differential to be much higher than 3-4kph.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    304
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zsionakides View Post
    With 28mph ebikes being allowed on the MUPs locally, I'd imagine the real speed differential to be much higher than 3-4kph.
    This is where I’d like to see ebike researchers like Chris Cherry at UTK and John MacArthur at PSU get funding to carry out a US study equivalent to the German naturalistic cycling study, equipping a variety of pedal bikes and ebikes with data measuring equipment, and getting some US data on path and road speed and behavior. The German study measured mean speed difference of 9kmh between pedal bikes and EU speed pedelecs/US Class 3 equivalent ebikes, speed difference should be lower between pedal bikes and Class 1 & 2 ebikes, Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...25753515001976
    Last edited by Dewey; 11-12-2019 at 11:24 PM.

  8. Likes lordofthemark liked this post
  9. #47
    lordofthemark's Avatar
    lordofthemark is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    The forgotten corner of Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    3,311
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    So. trails.

    In my City we got a trail, it's called the Holmes Run Trail. Multiple "temporary" detours. Some with no plans or funding in place to fix. IF we had huge numbers of ebikers relying on it, maybe the City would not let this languish?

    Maybe the bike lanes on Seminary would be so full of riders even the most blinkered NIMBY couldn't say "but I don't see anyone riding there".

    At some point, screw the Mount Vernon Trail (sorry Judd, et al, you know what I mean) and the Custis . Everything else in the region is just as, if not more, important. Bring on the Ebikes! MORE. NOW.

  10. Likes dasgeh, Judd, buschwacker, Steve O, Sunyata liked this post
  11. #48
    dasgeh's Avatar
    dasgeh is offline Queen of Family Biking & All Things Kidical
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    5,732
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zsionakides View Post
    Those on-campus shared use paths the study used are filled with students and are more akin to riding on the sidewalk than an MUP, which is why you see the riding speeds in the 7-8mph range. If you wanted to use that study to infer that ebike riders on sidewalks ride at the same speed as non-powered bikes, that would be reasonable, as the study demonstrates that ebikes slow down a lot in busy, congested corridors as do non-powered riders.
    [...]
    With 28mph ebikes being allowed on the MUPs locally, I'd imagine the real speed differential to be much higher than 3-4kph.
    But isn't this what we care most about? Not how fast people biking (e- or not) go when there's no one else around, but how they behave around other people. This study seems to say people on ebikes slow down and behave, more so (relative to street riding) than people riding pedal bikes.

    Also, Virginia law changed in July and ebikes that get assist up to 28mph aren't allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    At some point, screw the Mount Vernon Trail (sorry Judd, et al, you know what I mean) and the Custis . Everything else in the region is just as, if not more, important. Bring on the Ebikes! MORE. NOW.
    But really, this. Once we have real congestion on bike trails, then we can talk about restrictions. For now, let's get more friends using our trails!

  12. Likes lordofthemark, buschwacker, Dewey liked this post
  13. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    465
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Also, Virginia law changed in July and ebikes that get assist up to 28mph aren't allowed.
    Link to law here; which I didn't know it has changed. However, the law doesn't say they can't be used, just that they aren't allowed to go faster than 25 MPH, even on the road it seems. Quote:

    "No person shall at any time or at any location operate (i) an electric personal assistive mobility device or an electric power-assisted bicycle at a speed faster than 25 miles per hour"

    The limit is less for scooters, 20 MPH.

  14. Likes buschwacker liked this post
  15. #50
    Judd's Avatar
    Judd is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Arlington
    Posts
    3,708
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    So. trails.

    In my City we got a trail, it's called the Holmes Run Trail. Multiple "temporary" detours. Some with no plans or funding in place to fix. IF we had huge numbers of ebikers relying on it, maybe the City would not let this languish?

    Maybe the bike lanes on Seminary would be so full of riders even the most blinkered NIMBY couldn't say "but I don't see anyone riding there".

    At some point, screw the Mount Vernon Trail (sorry Judd, et al, you know what I mean) and the Custis . Everything else in the region is just as, if not more, important. Bring on the Ebikes! MORE. NOW.
    No offense taken. I have ridden the Natchez Trace Parkway, Skyline Drive and the Colonial Parkway and Id be happy to see the day that riding a bike on the GWMP was both safe and allowed.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. Likes dasgeh, buschwacker, scoot liked this post

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •