Likes Likes:  417
Dislikes Dislikes:  4
ELITE ELITE:  0
Page 5 of 18 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 174

Thread: BAFS 2020 teams and rules discussion

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    S. Arlington
    Posts
    398
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chuxtr View Post
    So some examples of rides and points earned:
    1 mile = 20 points
    2 miles = 29 points
    5 miles - 48 points
    10 miles = 65 points
    50 miles = 105 points
    100 miles = 155 points
    THOUGHTS???
    Wouldn't 5 miles ridden, in your 2nd listing, net the rider 50 points? (ie, 10 base day points, plus 10+9+8+7+6 "per mile" points)

    I like the plan! I agree that the "front-loading" of higher points on the early miles should help motivate newbies or on-the-fence riders to get a few miles in each day at least. The "sleaze" single-mile ride, worth 20 points alone, would almost become a guaranteed must-do every day!
    I don't currently have Strava -- are miles tabulated with decimal places? (So, would you round down, or up, for fractional miles?)

    I ran my Feb 2019 rides through the new points calc... I had 18 riding days, each over 10 miles (so, old system points = 360 I think?)
    Average ride was 22miles; month total was 402. New points system would value it all at 1,392 points I believe.

    PS -- is the "daily base points" of 10 useful in this points model? ie, if a 1 mile ride is the minimum ride to get ANY points for a day -- and so everyone who rides in BAFS, rides at least 1 mile per ride day to get on the board -- then everyone gets that same base 10 points (before tabulating their miles-points) and it seems essentially like an unnecessary constant in every rider's score...?
    {Edit; yeah, I guess it has a usefulness after thinking more on it - ie, for riders who managed to ride say, 100% of days, vs. riders who managed 50% of days...}
    Last edited by ChristoB50; 10-17-2019 at 11:04 AM.

  2. Likes Steve O, awitt liked this post
  3. #42
    Steve O's Avatar
    Steve O is offline I spend all day thinking about bikes and talking to people on the internet about them.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pentagon City in Arlington VA
    Posts
    4,872
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    There is a formula that accounts for fractional mileage, so it's actually a smooth curve (6.5 miles is worth more than 6.3, and that differential is greater than the difference between 8.5 and 8.3, as it should be).
    It also counts <1 mile ride days (not enough to qualify for a sleaze), but without the 10-point day bonus. I don't know if these ever happen, though. If someone is playing the game, once they decide to ride they are going to go at least a mile one would think.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by obscurerichard View Post
    Iím really excited to see such good ideas being posted. As it will fall to jrenaut and me (and maybe hozn if we are lucky) to implement any rule changes, in the absence of additional volunteers we are going to have to choose carefully what we pick.

    My personal bias is to encourage camaraderie over hardcore competition and avoid rules that will drive new riders away or be hard to understand or implement. Giving the people the choice of preferring a local team is appealing. I like the idea of having a much smaller team, raising or changing the point cap for team scoring, or just making the team score based on days ridden.

    I really like that last idea, btw, because it would allow a dedicated team that just rides every day to crush a team composed of elite racers and retired people who can ride hundreds of miles in a week.

    If we can easily model the effect of a rule change on competitiveness it will have a better chance of becoming official.

    Iím going to encourage people to continue to suggest rule ideas in this thread. Iím going to capture all of them and put them into GitHub issues here:

    https://github.com/freezingsaddles/freezing-web/issues

    (You can see this without a GitHub account but you canít add an issue or comment until you have a GitHub account)

    Please feel free to add new ideas directly to https://github.com/freezingsaddles/freezing-web/issues but also please mention that you have done so here in this thread and post the URL to your issue so people can review it.

    Then the team setting the rules and implementing for them will organize and prioritize these on cards in the Icebox column of this Kannan board (GitHub account & freezingsaddles team membership required to see this - PM me for access please):

    https://github.com/orgs/freezingsaddles/projects/1



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I just wanna cheer you on, Richard. I love your whole post - though I'm not probably computer savvy enough to make it worth getting a github account (either that or my son who works for Google has, uhm, tainted my view of myself . It would serve me right for teasing my mom about her American accent in Spanish for my entire childhood in PR. Her Spanish was actually good, & she didn't need to speak it well enough to pass as a local, as I did. Her blue eyes woulda gotten in the way of that anyhow.)

    Thanks for everything you're doing for us, Richard. Breath of fresh air!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. Likes obscurerichard liked this post
  6. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Penrose in Arlington, VA
    Posts
    633
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    My example (actually provided by Steve O) does not include 10 extra ride day points. We could do that or not. Although my opinion is that it's really no longer necessary since the first mile of the day is already worth 10 points. But one reason to keep it is it would give people even more reason to at least do a sleaze ride (and I'm all for that).

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristoB50 View Post
    Wouldn't 5 miles ridden, in your 2nd listing, net the rider 50 points? (ie, 10 base day points, plus 10+9+8+7+6 "per mile" points)

    I like the plan! I agree that the "front-loading" of higher points on the early miles should help motivate newbies or on-the-fence riders to get a few miles in each day at least. The "sleaze" single-mile ride, worth 20 points alone, would almost become a guaranteed must-do every day!
    I don't currently have Strava -- are miles tabulated with decimal places? (So, would you round down, or up, for fractional miles?)

    I ran my Feb 2019 rides through the new points calc... I had 18 riding days, each over 10 miles (so, old system points = 360 I think?)
    Average ride was 22miles; month total was 402. New points system would value it all at 1,392 points I believe.

    PS -- is the "daily base points" of 10 useful in this points model? ie, if a 1 mile ride is the minimum ride to get ANY points for a day -- and so everyone who rides in BAFS, rides at least 1 mile per ride day to get on the board -- then everyone gets that same base 10 points (before tabulating their miles-points) and it seems essentially like an unnecessary constant in every rider's score...?
    {Edit; yeah, I guess it has a usefulness after thinking more on it - ie, for riders who managed to ride say, 100% of days, vs. riders who managed 50% of days...}

  7. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    S. Arlington
    Posts
    398
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chuxtr View Post
    My example (actually provided by Steve O) does not include 10 extra ride day points. We could do that or not. Although my opinion is that it's really no longer necessary since the first mile of the day is already worth 10 points. But one reason to keep it is it would give people even more reason to at least do a sleaze ride (and I'm all for that).
    Looks like the sample listing from Steve did include the 10 base points -- otherwise, a 1-mile ride as shown above won't tally to "20 points".

    Mile 1 = 10 points
    Mile 2 = 9 points
    Mile 3 = 8 points, etc.

    The pasted sample table showed "a 2 mile ride would be worth 29 points" -- which is only achievable by including the 10 "bonus" points for a ride day, on top of +10 for Mile 1, +9 for Mile 2.

    Anyway -- I tend to agree with your initial opinion that it is no longer necessary -- with the "Mile 1" point-value being higher under this new plan, you could eliminate the old concept of "10 points for each day having a ride > 1mile", but still encourage all those 1-mile sleaze rides on the nastiest days -- since a 1-mile sleaze still nets the rider 10 points here (vs. 11 points under the old way.)

  8. Likes Nadine liked this post
  9. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    S. Arlington
    Posts
    398
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    hehe - I had to go explore how to make a tidy little table in a forum reply
    So below would be the first 11 miles of a single ride, under the proposed scoring (this excludes the 10-point-per-day bonus idea.)

    Mile# PointVal RunningTtl
    1 10 10
    2 9 19
    3 8 27
    4 7 34
    5 6 40
    6 5 45
    7 4 49
    8 3 52
    9 2 54
    10 1 55
    11 1 56

  10. Likes chuxtr liked this post
  11. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Penrose in Arlington, VA
    Posts
    633
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristoB50 View Post
    Looks like the sample listing from Steve did include the 10 base points -- otherwise, a 1-mile ride as shown above won't tally to "20 points".
    Yup. Me not paying attention.

  12. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    710
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chuxtr View Post

    THOUGHTS???
    FWIW - I think keeping the 10 points/day bonus on top of the mileage scoring changes proposed above would further the stated goal of "getting people to ride more often" by strengthening the incentive for getting out there (or, for the flip side of that coin, raises the bar that much more for "riding more miles to make up for missing a day"). I say this as someone whose behavior has already been modified by Freezing Saddles 2017 so the scoring system going forward will have zero impact on how much I actually ride.

  13. Likes Steve O liked this post
  14. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    34
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Changing the mileage scoring would definitely motivate me to participate this year. I did FS for the first time two years ago. I rode at least 1 mile a day for every day of the competition, but I rarely rode more than 50 miles a week. So, it would be great if my modest efforts contributed more to my team. I also like the idea of capping team points. I am agnostic on the idea of local teams. Most of my team was from outside DC (I live right near Union Station), but it was fun to meet new people and I count new friends from the experience. That said, I would probably opt for a local team if that's an option.

  15. Likes Steve O, LhasaCM, awitt liked this post
  16. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default BAFS 2020 teams and rules discussion

    I neglected to mention in my previous comments.... My vote on the team contribution cap question is either no cap or a higher one (150miles /week would do - 200 would be fine too.)

    I rode LESS last year (fs 2019) because of the team points contribution cap. I'm motivated much more by the team points contribution thing than by the idea of getting high up on the individual standings list (though I was probably additionally counter motivated last year by the company of my furloughed husband, who I can't convince to ride in the nice weather these years so not happening in the .)

    The only year I got kinda high up on the individual standings was when Lynn Salvo was training to break one of her world records (I think 2018, when she was training for the cross Canada one.) That's because I'm the most motivated by riding company... That was the year Lynn finished 1st & Joan 12th.... I finished 27th I think, so still the lazy musketeer .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Nadine; 10-21-2019 at 10:27 AM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •