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Thread: Is Road Riding Worth the Risk?

  1. #51
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    dasgeh is offline Queen of Family Biking & All Things Kidical
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    I agree with a lot of of what @ginacico wrote, and hate to focus on the negative, but this is the forum, after all .. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by ginacico View Post
    Not to be all GoT* dramatic, but BikeDC (#walkDC #bikeDC #liveDC) is fighting a war right now and they could sure use backup from people in the suburbs who venture within the city.
    Can we stop with the false DC v suburbs dichotomy? The situation in the 'burbs (particularly Fairfax, PG, and other places farther from density) is worse than that in DC proper. Plus, I would not say the issue is the 'burbs not showing up for DC. While I see tons of 'burbs advocates at the DC events, (and, thankfully, some DC folks at the Arlington stuff), it's rare to see DC folks heading out to the 'burbs when there are meetings and events. The 'burbs folks have their hands full, and while it's appreciated when they help out in DC, it's understandable that they focus on 'burbs. (If only WABA would help...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    If I am coming off harshly, we are engaged in a bitter, emotionally exhausting fight over Seminary Road in Alexandria. A bike advocate in DC was just murdered last Friday. I am really, really, really, not in the mood for people crapping on bike advocates, especially "avid cyclists".
    Doesn't seem like crapping on all the rest of us that have an interest and support of change for cycling in our area is a great way to get your fellow cyclists to support your POV. If you are that tired and upset, then maybe stepping away to get a fresh head might be in order.

    We all want the same things: safe places to ride and enjoy our sport. How each of us is able to contribute to that effort is a wide spectrum with millions of angles... but beating each other down isn't one of the ways to encourage change.

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  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JorgeGortex View Post
    Doesn't seem like crapping on all the rest of us that have an interest and support of change for cycling in our area is a great way to get your fellow cyclists to support your POV. If you are that tired and upset, then maybe stepping away to get a fresh head might be in order.

    We all want the same things: safe places to ride and enjoy our sport. How each of us is able to contribute to that effort is a wide spectrum with millions of angles... but beating each other down isn't one of the ways to encourage change.
    I did a quick review of my posts up to the one you quoted, and I think I succeeded in not crapping on anyone, and responding by providing facts as far as I knew them. And some of the posts I responded to did call out bike advocates as such.

    And I do not think I am the only one who is tired and upset. And rather than step away, I hope it will be possible to turn the energy positive to do more.

    I certainly recognize that there are lots of ways to advance biking and also safe streets for all, and sustainable transportation and sustainable development patterns generally. And I certainly respect the many things people do for those that are quite different from what we often think of as advocacy.

    But someone here did make "bike advocates" the issue. I found that unfortunate.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 05-03-2019 at 10:50 AM.

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  7. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    The situation in the 'burbs (particularly Fairfax, PG, and other places farther from density) is worse than that in DC proper.
    I've been reflecting on this lately. I certainly see plenty of infra in DC I envy - much better seg infra, overlaid on a legacy street grid that was already more bike friendly than what is found almost anywhere else in the region. Also some better bike policies - on negligence law, LPI's etc.

    OTOH there have been a string of bike and ped fatalities in DC that we, at least in the inner suburbs, have not faced lately (we have had ped fatalaties, but much smaller numbers). Part of that is likely just higher bike and ped mode share in DC. But some of it is the volume of motor vehicle traffic, the culture of motorists (both DC residents and suburbanites) and the relative lack of traffic enforcement other than ATE.

    So I would just say things are different, not better or worse. I will accept when #bikeDC complains even as folks in DC have some things I would love to have in NoVa. I will go to memorials in DC, but focus my letters and petitions and so forth in my own jurisdiction, as I think pols care much more about comments from people who can actually vote them out of office.

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    Ken what's ATE? Thanks

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  10. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by streetsmarts View Post
    Ken what's ATE? Thanks

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

    Automated Traffic Enforcement (IE speed cameras and red light cameras)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    OTOH there have been a string of bike and ped fatalities in DC that we, at least in the inner suburbs, have not faced lately (we have had ped fatalaties, but much smaller numbers). Part of that is likely just higher bike and ped mode share in DC.
    IMO, the mode share is the major factor. In most of fairfax people look at the infrastructure and just refuse to ride a bike on it, so they're not going to be in collision. (Except for low-wage workers with no options because social justice isn't a thing here.) We still get horrific fatalities (elderly people run down in crosswalks, cyclists hit by snowplows, etc) but in much lower numbers commensurate with the much lower opportunity for such.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    I've been reflecting on this lately. I certainly see plenty of infra in DC I envy - much better seg infra, overlaid on a legacy street grid that was already more bike friendly than what is found almost anywhere else in the region. Also some better bike policies - on negligence law, LPI's etc.

    OTOH there have been a string of bike and ped fatalities in DC that we, at least in the inner suburbs, have not faced lately (we have had ped fatalaties, but much smaller numbers). Part of that is likely just higher bike and ped mode share in DC. But some of it is the volume of motor vehicle traffic, the culture of motorists (both DC residents and suburbanites) and the relative lack of traffic enforcement other than ATE.

    So I would just say things are different, not better or worse. I will accept when #bikeDC complains even as folks in DC have some things I would love to have in NoVa. I will go to memorials in DC, but focus my letters and petitions and so forth in my own jurisdiction, as I think pols care much more about comments from people who can actually vote them out of office.
    In the inner suburbs (Arlington, Alexandria, probably Bethesda, College Park, etc), I agree that it's different, not better/worse. But I stand by the statement that it's worse in the outer suburbs -- Fairfax, PG in particular. It's so bad that not a lot of people walk and bike there and they still have numerous deaths. But they don't get the reporting and attention that the deaths in DC get (now).

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