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Thread: Discussion on Team Points Cap and Non-regional Teams

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob James View Post
    For me, I was saddened we lost the weather related stats mid-FEB.
    The BAFS web team was pretty disappointed about this, too. It's a fair bit of work to replace the weather API we lost, and no one had the time to do it. It's definitely high on the list for next year, as it definitely adds to the competition, whether or not official points depend on it.

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    We could create an algorithm so that points are a function of:

    - Miles
    - Temperature
    - Elevation

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuxtr View Post
    We could create an algorithm so that points are a function of:

    - Miles
    - Temperature
    - Elevation
    I've sometimes thought that time instead of miles is more in the spirit of FS. An hour outside in the cold rain is just as hard and miserable for a slow rider as a fast one. Maybe worse, since they don't generate as much internal heat.

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  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrenaut View Post
    The BAFS web team was pretty disappointed about this, too. It's a fair bit of work to replace the weather API we lost, and no one had the time to do it. It's definitely high on the list for next year, as it definitely adds to the competition, whether or not official points depend on it.
    I still believe that how many people are riding their bikes on a particular day is a better proxy for weather than most actual weather metrics (it's very hard to capture the gnarliness of precipitation/wind and pinpoint it to when people are riding).
    Formerly, using ourselves as the baseline worked, but now that such a large percentage of FS participants sleaze even on the lousy days, it's lost its effectiveness as our baseline. It might be possible to switch from Median Riders per Day to Median Miles per Day and see if that is a better proxy. People tend to take longer rides on nicer days.

    I think capturing the number of riders per day at the Bikeometer in Rosslyn (or other counters) and using that as a proxy for riding conditions would work really well. It would require some messing with, because there's a clear weekday/weekend difference at that counter that would need to be taken into account.

    There's a certain philosophical appeal, though, to using ourselves as the baseline to measure ourselves against. I.e., if you are riding when other FS participants are not, that's worth more.

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    I really, really missed having a regional team. BAFS is how I met most of the people I ride with regularly, and living in PG county I'm unlikely to ever ride regularly with a lot of Virginians. I met a few new people, but I don't think I met anyone who I'll now ride with regularly. Our team did manage to meet up, but didn't ever go for a real group ride. It took a 20-mile ride just to meet! I liked the mileage cap, mostly because it took the pressure off to ride a lot on the weekends (I'm a commuter, and 4 days a week gets me 100 miles, so for me it meant I was more likely to ride *all the way to work* on bad-weather days, more likely to take the long way in on weeks when I had a day off, and forced me to find new routes when my trails were icy). Since balancing the teams doesn't seem to work, perhaps our efforts are best spent trying to put together regional teams (maybe slicing the area like a pie so that teams with DC folks also contain suburban riders). I think, however, we just need three really large teams: cat lovers, dog lovers, and people who don't like pets. Then we'd have some real trash-talk.

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  9. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    I've sometimes thought that time instead of miles is more in the spirit of FS. An hour outside in the cold rain is just as hard and miserable for a slow rider as a fast one. Maybe worse, since they don't generate as much internal heat.
    Agree in principle, but this may be technically difficult based on how people save their rides. I know some people ride to work, turn off the gps, then turn it on to ride home. Does this give them 8 hours in the saddle? I'm not sure, but it might throw things off enough that we can't use this for scoring.

    But even if we don't use it for scoring, I really liked seeing the weather for when I rode. The plan is definitely to have a replacement for next year, regardless of how it's used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrenaut View Post
    I know some people ride to work, turn off the gps, then turn it on to ride home. Does this give them 8 hours in the saddle?
    I'm fairly certain all devices differentiate between active riding (moving) and stopped time. I know Strava shows it that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hancockbs View Post
    I'm fairly certain all devices differentiate between active riding (moving) and stopped time. I know Strava shows it that way.
    Devices do but not sure it's reported consistently through the API. I haven't researched this, though

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrenaut View Post
    Agree in principle, but this may be technically difficult based on how people save their rides. I know some people ride to work, turn off the gps, then turn it on to ride home. Does this give them 8 hours in the saddle? I'm not sure, but it might throw things off enough that we can't use this for scoring.

    But even if we don't use it for scoring, I really liked seeing the weather for when I rode. The plan is definitely to have a replacement for next year, regardless of how it's used.
    If we use riding time rather than elapsed time, it doesn't capture that time you are standing in the rain at the red light, but it generally gives slower and urban riders more time than faster, suburban riders over the same distance.
    I'm almost positive it's not the device that does this, but Strava.

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    I guess my broader point is that bringing weather into the official scoring is going to be a lot more technically difficult than the current system. We small group of volunteers struggle to maintain the site as is. We'd run a very real risk of the scoring system going down for days at a time.

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