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Thread: Discussion on Team Points Cap and Non-regional Teams

  1. #41
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    We could go the NASCAR route and take the top 8 teams and reset their points to zero with 2 weeks to go. We could have an independent commission rank the teams based on non-mileage factors and have head-to-head playoffs in March. Teams in 4 divisions and the division winners go head to head at the end. The possibilities are endless.

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  3. #42
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    It seems like problem we're trying to fix is the team leaderboard wire-wire winner issue and how there's very little movement once the standings are established? We saw before how without a mileage cap the top 1-3 teams run away with the win. And this year it seems like with a mileage cap, it was too difficult for any teams to make up for missed miles to catch up. It could just be that there's just no solution to that issue.

    Take the NFL, which has implemented some really tough "fairness" based rules likes salary caps, player incentives, the draft, scheduling, etc... to even up the teams and even with all of that, they can't seem to keep the stupid Patriots from winning or near the Superbowl every season for the past 15 years. Ugh... Or, I'm not a huge English Premier League follower but in their table after the first month or two the teams seem to fall into 3 categories - those competing for Champions/Europa League, those in the middle, and those avoiding relegation. There's very little, if any movement from one category to another right?

    I'm definitely a fan of some tweaks to make it more interesting but I just don't know if this type of competition is capable of big swings on a leaderboard. The fun part should probably be left up to the Pointless Prizes and the creativity with that but the leaderboard is the leaderboard.

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrenaut View Post
    We could go the NASCAR route and take the top 8 teams and reset their points to zero with 2 weeks to go. We could have an independent commission rank the teams based on non-mileage factors and have head-to-head playoffs in March. Teams in 4 divisions and the division winners go head to head at the end. The possibilities are endless.
    Jon- that is madness... March madness!!!!

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    I'm still sticking to my prediction that it won't work to make them more competitive, no matter who does it and no matter how hard they try and no matter what information they have.
    I agree with Steve O. As someone who's raced and run a race team, FS isn't about ability as much as it is about motivation/desire. The frontrunner teams don't have the "best" riders; they simply have people who are more motivated and willing to ride more miles ... regardless of the type of riding they do, e.g., everyday commuters vs mostly on weekend riders. It's not really possible to build teams that are more or less equal because the quality that makes a difference is intangible and not quantifiable. Historical data about miles and ride days are surrogates, but -- as has been said and even I said when I started putting together teams this year -- past performance is not a predictor of future results. Just like every mutual fund prospectus says.

    Zip codes and a random number generator.

  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuxtr View Post

    Zip codes and a random number generator.
    I could get behind this. I mean, we tried some interesting variations this year and saw what happened. And we've more-or-less determined that there is no perfect system. So why not just divide based on zip codes and random number generator next year?

  9. #46
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  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanA View Post
    I was going to start a discussion on this, but decided not to.... I live where most people don't ride anyway. And I'm never up early enough to do a coffee ride (I also don't drink coffee). In the past, I've tried to participate in at least one of the group rides, but this year didn't work out since I was on the road a lot.

    I also realize that this game is meant to have fun, and maybe do some things you normally wouldn't do. Like stop at 10 coffee places in one day and get wired! Or do a ride at 3:00 am! I also enjoy seeing what crazy weather people will ride in. That always amuses me. I've also met some nice people, so that's also a plus.

    I guess the bottom line is that I don't really care. I'm certainly not going be able to retire off my winnings from Freezing Saddles! I would most likely play along no matter what the rules are. It keeps me amused during winter.

    I was following until the part that mentions you don't drink coffee and you lost me.

  12. #48
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    For fun, I created 4 different random team assignments based on this year's scoring (so with the weekly mileage cap and 10 riders per team).

    In one of those 4 simulations, the final team score between first and second place was 5 points. Exciting! But 3rd place was 900 points back, so it was only slightly more interesting than where we ended up. The other 3 simulations were the same or even less competitive at the top than what we ended up with here.

    Now - what if we went with larger random teams? Not surprisingly, things get a little bit more interesting, and more often the race for the win is relatively close. The overall standings get a bit tighter as well, but it still usually becomes a 2-team race.

    The benefit to the random approach is that expectations are set up front that there'll be no rhyme or reason to how things end up - not that it would actually be expected to change things

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  14. #49
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    My $0.02.

    I think Steve O and Chuxtr are right that there isn’t a way to create teams in December and have close results at the end. Here are some alternatives.

    1. Do away with having an overall team winner and go with categories: most days, most miles, most trips, most group rides (with different minimum numbers of team members), etc.

    2. Do a two-stage season. In the first half the teams are location based to promote team activities and establish everyone’s riding habits. In the second half the teams are recreated based on the data from the first half.

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  16. #50
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    For me, I was saddened we lost the weather related stats mid-FEB. I was more focused on maximizing freeze points than miles. Going out when it was the coldest, not the warmest part of day. Freeze points seems to best capture the spirit of winter riding, and does not require huge miles, just daily riding in coldest weather.

    The 100 mile team cap did not influence my personal riding behavior, but when my team was in 15th and below all year and I couldn't even try to move my team up a position it was discouraging. Competition does not have to be for 1st place, but can be between 15th and 16th place teams, etc.

    As to retired riders, in the winter I think daily commuters might have a little advantage . They don't need motivation/incentive to go out in the cold, as they need to get to work. That said, retired and nontraditional workers have more flexibility when they ride, e,g, wait for warmest, non-rainiest part of day. Freeze points would help take away that flexibility advantage.

    So I favor random team selections, no team point caps and freeze points versus mileage points (for teams). Of course, only if possible to capture weather data again. Temperature is most consistent attribute, unlike snow, rain, etc. And for snow, riders who can spend more on "snow enabled " bikes would have too much advantage.

    While I didn't have any team competition to capture my attention this year, I have to give a shout out to Dave (FFG) and Joan B. I truly enjoyed following their challenging each other through any and all weather conditions. I say challenge, not competition, as I don't think they were trying to beat each other, just encouraged to match each others mileage, as evidenced by finishing at a coordinated tie.
    Last edited by Bob James; 03-24-2019 at 06:14 PM.

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