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Thread: Washington Blvd repaving thru Westover

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    It would be a ~3 block cycletrack. Would you cross the road to use it?
    Checking the survey, it looks like VDOT is re-striping all the way east to N Frederick road, which is 11 blocks. I would recommend a 2-way cycle track the entire length on the south side, which would allow bike blvd connections to the Custis trail without having to cross Washington Blvd where there aren't lights. Even a narrow cycle track (7-8ft wide) would be a big improvement over the door zone bike lanes that exist today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zsionakides View Post
    2-way cycle track the entire length on the south side
    Such a facility would be more dangerous than the present configuration, especially for westbound riders on the downhills. Left-crossing drivers, eager to cut through the first gap in oncoming traffic, have enough difficulty yielding to pedestrians in those crosswalks. They will not look for bikes.

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  4. #43
    DismalScientist is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    ... and a shady tavern for local drunkards.
    I would hardly call the Westover Beer Garden shady... All my local drunkard friends are at the Beer Garden, not the Forest Inn, but I roll with the elite crowd.

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    I would hardly call the Westover Beer Garden shady...
    It has trees.





    (I was referring to the Forest Inn, though. Sorry if I insulted any of your friends.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoot View Post
    Such a facility would be more dangerous than the present configuration, especially for westbound riders on the downhills. Left-crossing drivers, eager to cut through the first gap in oncoming traffic, have enough difficulty yielding to pedestrians in those crosswalks. They will not look for bikes.
    Such a facility would have far more usage across a broader spectrum of riders than the current door zone bike lanes. If you look at the cycletracks in DC (e.g. Penn Ave, 15th St, or 1st NE), they have much better usage than comparable on-street bike lanes including amongst the general public.

    Safety wise, cycletracks (and really all PBLs) are meant for slower riding than on-street riding and caution should be taken through any intersection. For higher speed riders, I would recommend they ride on the street with traffic. For the general public of non-high speed riders (the 8-88 years old crowd), getting a protected facility gives them a much better place to ride then on a sidewalk or in a road they aren't comfortable riding in.

  9. #46
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    I love PBLs. I think we should have PBLs on all major streets in Arlington.

    However, we shouldn't build PBLs that have obstructed views of conflict points. Parking will obstruct views, so, in my opinion, PBLs that are beside parking are most appropriate on streets where there are few driveways.

    On this stretch, the ideal would be to build one-way (i.e. one on each side) PBLs without parking where there are driveways. If you did a two-way cycletrack, on one side, I would want to see a parking pulled for a significant distance from each driveway, which would mean all parking removed for some of those blocked. That's a heavy lift. Not that we shouldn't propose it, but it's a really heavy lift.

  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsionakides View Post
    Such a facility would have far more usage across a broader spectrum of riders than the current door zone bike lanes. If you look at the cycletracks in DC (e.g. Penn Ave, 15th St, or 1st NE), they have much better usage than comparable on-street bike lanes including amongst the general public.

    Safety wise, cycletracks (and really all PBLs) are meant for slower riding than on-street riding and caution should be taken through any intersection. For higher speed riders, I would recommend they ride on the street with traffic. For the general public of non-high speed riders (the 8-88 years old crowd), getting a protected facility gives them a much better place to ride then on a sidewalk or in a road they aren't comfortable riding in.
    Why would you want to attract a broader spectrum of riders on Washington Blvd? It basically parallels the Custis. If you feel uncomfortable on Wash Blvd, take the trail.

    The street is too narrow to carve out a two-way cycle track.

    The problem for higher speed riders is that once you carve out cycletracks or PBLs, you make the regular travel lanes narrower and more difficult to ride in/with traffic. The speed limit on Washington Blvd is 30 mph. I ride this road every day. Do not do this.

    (If they really want something to fix, they should change the lane configuration at the George Mason intersection and have dedicated left turn lanes. Now you have through traffic using the intersection trying to pass other through traffic on the right.)

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  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    I love PBLs. I think we should have PBLs on all major streets in Arlington.

    However, we shouldn't build PBLs that have obstructed views of conflict points. Parking will obstruct views, so, in my opinion, PBLs that are beside parking are most appropriate on streets where there are few driveways.

    On this stretch, the ideal would be to build one-way (i.e. one on each side) PBLs without parking where there are driveways. If you did a two-way cycletrack, on one side, I would want to see a parking pulled for a significant distance from each driveway, which would mean all parking removed for some of those blocked. That's a heavy lift. Not that we shouldn't propose it, but it's a really heavy lift.
    The issue with one-way PBLs on this part of Washington Blvd is they will have to be narrow and part of that narrow PBL will be taken up by the gutter on the road. This may end up with a worse situation than what is on Pershing's PBLs. You will also have to take a lot of parking spaces for daylight with one-way PBLs, but I think the number would be much higher than with a 2 way cycletrack. From Ivanhoe east to Frederick, there is no parking on the south side, and on the block between Longfellow and Patrick Henry there are no driveways with the school being there, so parking could be kept entirely with a cycletrack. The blocks in between Patrick Henry and Ivanhoe may require a few spots taken, but those could possibly be replaced on the north side of the road with that bike lane removed and there no longer a need for mixing areas.

  13. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    Why would you want to attract a broader spectrum of riders on Washington Blvd? It basically parallels the Custis. If you feel uncomfortable on Wash Blvd, take the trail.
    I ride this road every day.
    For that matter, why allow cars on Washington Blvd.? It basically parallels Lee Highway.
    Maybe the Custis is not where these people want to go. Like you--"I ride this road every day."--I suspect there are others who would also ride this road every day if it were more comfortable for them. Presumably you would prefer that only experienced, comfortable riders like yourself should have access to using this street on their bike. I think that Isabella should be able to ride here to get to the library or Toby's or wherever she wants to go.

    I'm not trying to "attract a broader spectrum of riders." I'm wanting to create a comprehensive, safe, comfortable bike riding infrastructure essentially everywhere. Yes, this seems to be an impossible aspirational goal, but it's what we have to hold up. Otherwise all we have is a bunch of fixie-riding economists.

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  15. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by accordioneur View Post
    Yes, Lost Dog is in the area, but it's not rabid

    One of the nice things about Westover is that it's not strictly an "upper middle class" enclave. There are a large number of more affordable garden apartment rentals around Westover, and the mix of businesses - barbershop, drug store, hardware store, library, bank, bars, etc. - serves the entire community. I would suggest that self-loathing upper middle classers and Arlington haters might want to restrict themselves to the workers' paradises of their own communities - proletarian utopias such as Old Town and Del Ray come to mind.
    My original point was meant to be light (dystopian being obviously absurd) and focused on the complete streets difficulties. I mentioned class only in response to a list of fine retail establishments. I probably shouldn't have. I can edit my remarks if that is desired. Ok? Peace.

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