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Thread: NOVA Parks Hearing in e-bikes

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dplasters View Post
    Any rider can be dangerous. You CANNOT be as dangerous on an analog bike as the fit rider. You can't do 30 (presuming based upon your story). By being on an e-bike you have added a new dangerous ability.

    *Edit to be clear here - I think the e-bike argument is that you do a hell of a lot less damage to people on an e-bike at 20mph than in a car at 40. Less people in cars is great. I want e-bikes on trails. But there are going to be more incidents because of them. More traffic, heavy/larger, higher speeds (even if only for a minority of e-bike riders, thats still more people at unsafe speeds). It's why i'm open to the idea that the rate of incidents will decrease. Perhaps so many new users will be out that that the rate actually decreases? I dunno. But saying you cannot be any more dangerous on an e-bike vs an analog bike just isn't true. Given the opportunity to do dumb things, people will do them.
    You can do a hell of a lot more damage at 28mph on a 50+ lb e-bike than at 12mph on a 20lb regular bike.

    E-bikes should be encouraged for road use by building appropriate biking (and scooter) lanes and cycle tracks within the current roadway structure. Those facilities are appropriate for the higher speed traveling that e-bikes encourage.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    why not treat class 2s like class 1s? They have the same speed limitations as class 1, the only difference is the throttle. Throttles are super important for those carrying heavy loads (aka parents) and people with disabilities (who can't always pedal or have a hard time balancing to start). I don't know of anywhere in the U.S. that treats class 1s differently than class 2s.
    This morning on my walk to Metro a Dad on a RadCity (a Class 2 ebike) with a child seat on the rear rack pulled up in front of me. The intersection had cars blocking his view on both sides so he used his throttle to slowly move forward to look both ways to get a better view without having to worry about losing his balance with the weight of his son on the back (toddlers move around shifting weight), then when the way was clear he used the throttle to complete his left turn and they were on their way with Dad pedalling. That's how I use the throttle on my Class 2 ebike when I tow my daughter in the trailer. For low speed manouvering a throttle is very helpful for cargo bikes, towing a trailer, people with knee or balance issues, filtering past stationary traffic to avoid a pedal strike against kerb stones, and hill starts on a heavier ebike when facing uphill. Ebike brand owner Tora Harris listed other use cases for a low speed throttle here on another forum. Personally I'd accept if trail managers decided to impose a low speed requirement on Class 2 throttles as in Europe where I think the cut off is 6kmh/4mph, because this can be easily programmed into an ebike controller and it's at low speed where throttle assistance is most needed.
    Last edited by Dewey; 02-14-2019 at 08:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zsionakides View Post
    15mph is the speed limit on the CCT and MVT. It's not unreasonable for the W&OD which is full of people walking, kids learning to ride bikes, and people's pets around.
    As long as they apply the 12mph buffer given to people driving cars before issuing tickets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zsionakides View Post
    You can do a hell of a lot more damage at 28mph on a 50+ lb e-bike than at 12mph on a 20lb regular bike.

    E-bikes should be encouraged for road use by building appropriate biking (and scooter) lanes and cycle tracks within the current roadway structure. Those facilities are appropriate for the higher speed traveling that e-bikes encourage.
    Good luck here with that argument. People say they support science, but not when it is the physics involved with e-bikes.

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    You can do a hell of a lot more damage at 28mph on a 50+ lb e-bike than at 12mph on a 20lb regular bike.

    I wish I had a 20 lb regular bike. In fact I ride a bike closer to 30lbs and most of my miles I am riding with a backpack carrying clothes, and sometimes lunch, and sometimes papers. Though I guess differences in rider weight matter more. Unless there is a new physics where only the weight of the bike itself matters.


    E-bikes should be encouraged for road use by building appropriate biking (and scooter) lanes and cycle tracks within the current roadway structure. Those facilities are appropriate for the higher speed traveling that e-bikes encourage.


    have you ever actually done advocacy for a new cycle track? One that involves either taking away a genral travel lane, or parking? here are some quotes

    We are not a quaint village where everyone can bike to work and shopping centers.

    Seminary is a major hub to not only the highway, but to the hospital and the Mark Center, all of which are economic drivers for the city and we ant to stifle that for a couple of yuppies that want to show off their $5k bianchi bicycles...


    It looks like we are devoting a lot of resources to bike lanes, while almost no one appears to be commuting by bike in hilly West Alexandria.

    If I had a dollar for every time someone mentioned the lack of riders as a reason to oppose complete streets (even when the road diet would largely improve safety for walkers and drivers) I would be well on my way to that 20 lb Bianchi.

    We need more folks in the bike lanes we have. More acoustic bikes, more ebikes, more scooters, more hoverboards, whatever. And if that means ALSO allowing them on trails, so be it. I will listen to advice from people on the need for more bike lanes for ebikes (while banning them from trails) from folks who have been in the trenches fighting for bike infra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zsionakides View Post
    You can do a hell of a lot more damage at 28mph on a 50+ lb e-bike than at 12mph on a 20lb regular bike.

    E-bikes should be encouraged for road use by building appropriate biking (and scooter) lanes and cycle tracks within the current roadway structure. Those facilities are appropriate for the higher speed traveling that e-bikes encourage.
    By this logic, should we ban cat 2s who weigh more than 250lbs? They are far faster and weigh more than 30 lbs more than me on my road bike...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    By this logic, should we ban cat 2s who weigh more than 250lbs? They are far faster and weigh more than 30 lbs more than me on my road bike...
    How common are those? Looking at a height/weight table for cyclists on this page, and it claims a 6'4" sprinter should be between 169 and 198 pounds. Conor Dunne is 6'8" and 194 pounds according to Wikipedia, although he's better than a cat 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Conor Dunne is 6'8" and 194 pounds according to Wikipedia, although he's better than a cat 2.
    Ban him!! Imagine the damage he could do on the MVT at full speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    How common are those? Looking at a height/weight table for cyclists on this page, and it claims a 6'4" sprinter should be between 169 and 198 pounds. Conor Dunne is 6'8" and 194 pounds according to Wikipedia, although he's better than a cat 2.
    Have you been to a race? There are plenty of racers who aren't skinny.

    My point is that if we ban people according to the danger they pose when maxing out their ABILITY, and we think ebikes going 20mph (class 1 and 2s) is past that line, then there are a whole lot of people that would also need to be banned on the lightest bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zsionakides View Post
    Witnesses can also see the difference between a rider going 12 and 22mph.
    I'm sure a defense attorney would love to cross examine a witness who says they can tell how fast someone was going by looking at them.

    15mph is the speed limit on the CCT and MVT. It's not unreasonable for the W&OD which is full of people walking, kids learning to ride bikes, and people's pets around.
    Sure it is, as explained before. The W&OD is 45 miles long, and in the western stretches often completely empty with long sight lines. Telling people to go 15MPH is asinine. On the flip side, in vienna on a warm Saturday afternoon, telling people to go 15MPH is negligent. So you've managed to decide that the proper speed is one that is both too slow and too fast.

    The other trails also have speed limits that are stupid, luckily we have their example to show why doing the same thing on the W&OD is a bad idea--no need to guess!

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