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Thread: New bike lane markings on Pershing from Washington to Arlington Blvd

  1. #31
    dasgeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    As I've said repeatedly, now the general travel lanes are narrower and do not support cars passing without having to leave the lane. This makes taking the lane less safe than before. Further, it gives the impression to drivers that bicyclists are scofflaws by not taking an allegedly good PBL right next to the general travel lane, not that this is illegal. I don't like being told by drivers to take the bike lane when I considered more dangerous. This has happened many times and, frankly, I don't think it is good for driver/cyclist relations..
    As I've said before, with the 3 foot passing law, it's not possible for a car to legally pass a bike without leaving the lane unless the lane is >12' wide. There are few of those in Arlington. Thus, riding in the lane should be no different than before. Drivers who don't know the law think cyclists are scofflaws for all sorts of things. The existence of a PBL doesn't change that. I've been told to take the sidewalk, to go far out of my way to take the trail, to do any number of other things that are not legally required. Stupid drivers are not good for driver/cyclist relations. Enabling more people to bike is good for people relations, as people who bike tend to realize that "cyclists" are just people on a bike, even when behind the wheel of a car.

    Note: most people refer to "taking the lane" as riding in the lane in such a way to make it clear a car needs to move into another lane to pass.

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  3. #32
    DismalScientist is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    I was riding in the unprotected bike lane before and a car can easily pass me in the general travel lane. Afterwards, I am in the general lane and the car cannot pass me. This is true of Veitch, Pershing, Hayes and Army-Navy. You have said that you are going to want this on Wilson, Clarendon and Fairfax. If this happens, I think that there will not be what I consider safe infrastructure for me to ride between Ballston and Rosslyn.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    You have said that you are going to want this on Wilson, Clarendon and Fairfax. If this happens, I think that there will not be what I consider safe infrastructure for me to ride between Ballston and Rosslyn.
    I do not believe you. You, Dismal, are comfortable riding in the general travel lanes and have made it clear that you feel plenty safe mixing with traffic, which you have been doing for years. AFAICT, any old road is safe infrastructure for you.
    The new infrastructure is not meant for you (or, for that matter, me either); it's meant to make more people comfortable riding their bikes. PBLs do that, whether or not you happen to like them or think they are more or less safe. The most effective way to improve safety for all people on the roads is for there to be more people riding bikes. More is better.

    On Wilson, Clarendon and Fairfax you have 2 lanes in each direction, so cars find it easier to move to the other lane to pass - rather than into an oncoming lane like on Pershing. I don't believe I have ever had a driver get angry at me for taking a lane on a road with 2 or more lanes going in my direction.
    Shoot, they already have to do this most of the time on Fairfax, since the unprotected bike lane is so frequently blocked that bike riders have to take the travel lane anyway to get around the parked trucks, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    I was riding in the unprotected bike lane before and a car can easily pass me in the general travel lane. Afterwards, I am in the general lane and the car cannot pass me. This is true of Veitch, Pershing, Hayes and Army-Navy.
    Only a minority of people who ride bikes feel comfortable in unprotected bike lanes. The multitudes of people who currently do not ride their bikes are not riding them for that very reason. There are some who like it that way ("Keep those newbies off my roads and trails!!!"). I am not one of them. I want infrastructure built that Isabella can ride on.

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  5. #34
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    I rode bikes with a bunch of 6 year olds this weekend, none of whom I want to take a lane on Pershing.

    I think the best compromise here is banning cars from Pershing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    I don't believe I have ever had a driver get angry at me for taking a lane on a road with 2 or more lanes going in my direction.

    Come ride on Gallows going in either direction between the Dunn Loring metro at Avenir Place to Cottage Street (no bike lane along this section). They get plenty mad (even at 6am when traffic is relatively light for that stretch of road).

    It's way less stressful (to me) to just hop on the sidewalk here. A walking pace and nod/smile/hello generally makes pedestrians accepting of me. I used to take the lane but it's just not worth the prayers and hustle during my commute plus it's only two blocks at the very end or very beginning of my ride. Driver aggression along here is getting worse and worse, I don't even like using the bike lane.

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    Agree w/ most of SteveO's post, except I've definitely felt some driver heat on 4 lanes in the area. Glebe Road up from Chain Bridge after it goes to 4, Rout 7 through Falls Church (even though it's 25 mph ffs), George Mason Drive. Maybe I'm just more attuned to driver feelings, or maybe I'm more sensitive to buzzing or people zipping into my lane and turning immediately without a signal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tania View Post
    Come ride on Gallows going in either direction between the Dunn Loring metro at Avenir Place to Cottage Street (no bike lane along this section). They get plenty mad (even at 6am when traffic is relatively light for that stretch of road).

    It's way less stressful (to me) to just hop on the sidewalk here. A walking pace and nod/smile/hello generally makes pedestrians accepting of me. I used to take the lane but it's just not worth the prayers and hustle during my commute plus it's only two blocks at the very end or very beginning of my ride. Driver aggression along here is getting worse and worse, I don't even like using the bike lane.
    You can avoid the bike lanes on Gallows between Cottage and the W&OD by taking Cottage eastbound until it ends, left on Sandburg St., then onto the connector trail between the Sandburg St. dead ends, and Sandburg St. (II) up to the W&OD.

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  12. #38
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    1. The conditions on Gallows in FFX County, on Wilson in Arlington, and on Pershing in Arlington are all different, and I have reached the point where absent a REALLY long intricate discussion, I can't make a cogent sensible point that applies to ALL of them. Can folks stop inserting more and more new roads as examples? (not that its all about ME, of course)

    2. Ultimately we may not be able to make everyone happy. We have people (not all 6 year olds) who are going to prefer a PBL over either taking the lane, or a door zone bike lane, even for a short stretch on a 25MPH road. We have folks comfortable taking the lane on a 30MPH road (thanks to the people who have inspired me to SOMETIMES ride up the hill in the lane on Walter Reed from Arlington Mill to King, despite the ever present temptation of the Lucky Run Trail) And we have people at multiple levels and styles of comfort in between. Its pretty clear though that the places that have succeeded the best at increasing biking have been those that lean heavily towards proteced infra. And increasing the numbers of riders is ultimately good for all riders, because more drivers, LE, etc ARE riders in that case.

    3. Its a LOT easier to satisfy more riders when we have an actual street grid that means more parallel routes (though its not like everything in DC is hunky dory for riders these days). But most of our suburbs were mostly not built that way, and retrofitting grids in happens seldom, usually as part of big redevelopments, and often even then with incomplete connectivity.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 11-05-2018 at 02:50 PM.

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  14. #39
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    And again, the sheer number of people I see riding the sidewalk (of varying ages, races, types of bikes, etc) all around the region, even in places where the street seems eminently rideable to me (and I don't go that fast) suggests to me that there remains a large latent demand for PBL's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bentbike33 View Post
    You can avoid the bike lanes on Gallows between Cottage and the W&OD by taking Cottage eastbound until it ends, left on Sandburg St., then onto the connector trail between the Sandburg St. dead ends, and Sandburg St. (II) up to the W&OD.
    This is what I've been doing for a few years now (dkel showed me). But in order to get to Cottage, it's either take the lane on Gallows (meh...Sunday at 7:30 am isn't so bad) or ride on the sidewalk.

    I'm actually pretty darn comfortable riding in traffic. I will plant my bike just to the left of the middle of the lane so that it's impossible for a car to pass me without changing lanes. My lane. MINE. But I won't unless I absolutely have to. But then I also won't make a left without a left hand turn light and do everything I can to avoid some roads (the SO is still baffled every time I take a Tania-friendly route rather than the most direct). The potential stress of dealing with drivers (on a bike or when I'm driving too) just isn't worth it to me.
    Last edited by Tania; 11-05-2018 at 03:06 PM.

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