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Thread: Let's talk about e scooters

  1. #81
    dasgeh's Avatar
    dasgeh is offline Queen of Family Biking & All Things Kidical
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterw_diy View Post
    For any motorist in the right lane where right on red is allowed, blocking the crosswalk is pretty much required to proceed safely. So yeah, it's often not a big deal and is far more understandable than blocking right of way or littering private property with these rolling e-waste** contraptions, both of which are easily avoidable.
    The way I read the law, right on red requires a car to stop behind the stop line, and to not proceed beyond the stop line unless the drivers is sure it is safe to proceed. If the driver can't see, that's not permission to go beyond the stop line to look - they should be staying put until the can know it's safe to proceed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    The way I read the law, right on red requires a car to stop behind the stop line, and to not proceed beyond the stop line unless the drivers is sure it is safe to proceed. If the driver can't see, that's not permission to go beyond the stop line to look - they should be staying put until the can know it's safe to proceed.
    In my experience with the law as enforced, if you're in a car and want to turn right you can do any damn thing you want because car.

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  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    In my experience with the law as enforced, if you're in a car and want to turn right you can do any damn thing you want because car.
    Yes, because those doing the enforcing are almost always in cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    The way I read the law, right on red requires a car to stop behind the stop line, and to not proceed beyond the stop line unless the drivers is sure it is safe to proceed. If the driver can't see, that's not permission to go beyond the stop line to look - they should be staying put until the can know it's safe to proceed.
    Which would mean that at many intersections with mere stop signs it would often not be legal to proceed due to poor sight lines. Shoot, there are intersections where even on a bike, without six feet of hood and dashboard in front of the rider, it's difficult to check cross traffic from behind the stop line. It's absurd to expect people to follow such laws.

    Ken, thanks for the details. Yes, failing to respect the stop lines and crosswalks without RTOR is deplorable. And I'd like to see more intersections ban RTOR especially where sight lines are poor. The only reason I much like RTOR is that it allows cars with internal combustion engines to move sooner and burn less fuel, but hopefully electrics and hybrids will neutralize concerns about fuel waste when idling.

    Dockless scooters though, they just suck. There are too many physical and economic challenges for those to ever be a decent option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peterw_diy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    Temporarily blocking - but anyone trying to cross with the light would have had to go outside the crosswalk to get around. A friend of mine got hit by a truck that way, her bike was totaled, but by a miracle and good instincts she was not badly hurt.

    But yeah, lots of people, both drivers and people engaged in the public discourse, don't think that cars "temporarily" blocking a crosswalk is a big deal. Not as bad as someone putting one of those ugly scooters on their lawn. Feh.
    Or wait. Radical suggestion, I know.
    Why can't the car wait instead?

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  9. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterw_diy View Post
    Which would mean that at many intersections with mere stop signs it would often not be legal to proceed due to poor sight lines. Shoot, there are intersections where even on a bike, without six feet of hood and dashboard in front of the rider, it's difficult to check cross traffic from behind the stop line. It's absurd to expect people to follow such laws.

    Ken, thanks for the details. Yes, failing to respect the stop lines and crosswalks without RTOR is deplorable. And I'd like to see more intersections ban RTOR especially where sight lines are poor. The only reason I much like RTOR is that it allows cars with internal combustion engines to move sooner and burn less fuel, but hopefully electrics and hybrids will neutralize concerns about fuel waste when idling.

    Dockless scooters though, they just suck. There are too many physical and economic challenges for those to ever be a decent option.


    I believe all the externalities of scooters can be remedied. In many cases the remedies are already available it's just a matter of will. Far easier than remedies for the automobile. As for scooter company finances, that's on the companies and their investors. Maybe they will work out, maybe they won't. But meanwhile I will advocate for remedies, especially ones like bike lanes and parking corrals that daylight intersections that have other benefits. And I will oppose unfair criticism of scooters that appear to to criticize them for things we accept in autos.

  10. #87
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    As for stop sign only intersections they are different, as waiting for the green is not an option. Where visibility is poor, and there are conflicts between peds and right turning cars due to volumes of both, that argues for signaling precisely to solve that. King and Beauregard has a very large number of right turning vehicles and, for the west end, a high number of pedestrians.

  11. #88
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    As for the fuel usage justification, almost no other country has found that persuasive.

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