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Thread: Let's talk about e scooters

  1. #131
    dasgeh's Avatar
    dasgeh is offline Queen of Family Biking & All Things Kidical
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjclaeys View Post
    So when someone riding a bicycle like Leslie gets hurt because of a scooter left in a MUP, they should just be thankful that the person who left the scooter didn't ride Uber/Lyft? I don't want to be part of any team that will reject any suggestions to improve public safety because they can come up with unlikely factual scenarios and won't give consideration to anything that could impinge on scooter use. You guys sound a lot like the NRA.
    I am very glad that Leslie was not hit by a Uber/Lyft.

    I'm all for efforts to increase public safety, if they, you know, increase public safety. Brainstorming ideas that could increase public safety is great, but if under examination, there's an idea that would lead to more car trips (i.e. decrease public safety), then we should call it out.

    Other ideas that could address bad parking while not increasing car trips:
    - require scooters to be reflective all over (not all black)
    - require better kickstands
    - establish more clear parking guidelines
    - develop/require better systems to alert users when the scooters are going to run out of battery
    - develop/require better systems to pick up scooters that have run out of battery
    - develop/require better systems for "sweeping" the trails for scooters.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    I am very glad that Leslie was not hit by a Uber/Lyft.
    OK, so in the scenario that a cyclist hits a scooter left in a MUP and is seriously injured, your response is that you're glad they weren't hit by a Uber/Lyft?

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjclaeys View Post
    So when someone riding a bicycle like Leslie gets hurt because of a scooter left in a MUP, they should just be thankful that the person who left the scooter didn't ride Uber/Lyft? I don't want to be part of any team that will reject any suggestions to improve public safety because they can come up with unlikely factual scenarios and won't give consideration to anything that could impinge on scooter use. You guys sound a lot like the NRA.
    I think we should improve safety on the trails, so that does not happen. We need a way to gather scooters improperly left on the bridges, MVT, etc, whether private juicers or the companies doing it. They probably need trailers pulled by ebikes to collect them - if NPS can't see their way to legalizing even class 3 ebikes on the trails, they could grant a waiver to ones run by the scooter companies for scooter collection. They may need to do pick up on the bridges and trails cooperatively - IE not Spin collecting Spin scooters, Bird collecting Bird, etc, but they may all need to go in together. Another possibility (I am not a techie, just brainstorming) would be geofencing combined with battery charge data - so one could not take a scooter onto a bridge if one did not have the juice to get to the other side and beyond the trail.

    If ebike changes can't work, maybe the scooter companies need to pay to have someone pull a trailer with a regular bike. That will be expensive, but if its needed for safety so be it. If the scooters are profitable enough to bear the cost, fine, if not the scooter companies will have to geofence them from the bridges and trails. If that means dockless scooters play a lesser role in our multimodal future than hoped, again, so be it.

    But these are ideas to address the problem, not an attempt to either discourage scooter use in general, or to punish scooter riders.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 06-13-2019 at 03:36 PM.

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  5. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    I think we should improve safety on the trails, so that does not happen. We need a way to gather scooters improperly left on the bridges, MVT, etc, whether private juicers or the companies doing it. They probably need trailers pulled by ebikes to collect them - if NPS can't see their way to legalizing even class 3 ebikes on the trails, they could grant a waiver to ones run by the scooter companies for scooter collection. They may need to do pick up on the bridges and trails cooperatively - IE not Spin collecting Spin scooters, Bird collecting Bird, etc, but they may all need to go in together.
    I just saw the LYFT trike when I was out for a run today. Rider was so nice.

  6. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjclaeys View Post
    Ummm, if you leave the keys in the car, yes you can be held liable if someone steals it and kills someone.
    the scooter is not operable. at any rate, if someone is liable it's the scooter company, not the user.

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  8. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjclaeys View Post
    So when someone riding a bicycle like Leslie gets hurt because of a scooter left in a MUP, they should just be thankful that the person who left the scooter didn't ride Uber/Lyft? I don't want to be part of any team that will reject any suggestions to improve public safety because they can come up with unlikely factual scenarios and won't give consideration to anything that could impinge on scooter use. You guys sound a lot like the NRA.
    For the record, I think scooters are asinine. I just also think that trying to fine users for where the scooters end up is also asinine. It's a problem created by the scooter companies, they're the ones who need to figure out how to deal with it.

  9. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    the scooter is not operable. at any rate, if someone is liable it's the scooter company, not the user.
    Actually, both are

  10. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Other ideas that could address bad parking while not increasing car trips:
    Only one thing can fix the parking problems (inconsiderate renters, jerks who deliberately move scooters to worse locations, juicers who stage poorly, scooters being accidentally knocked into bad positions): REQUIRING THEY BE PARKED IN WELL-PLACED DOCKS.

    They're too easy to move, there's no reasonably clear and enforceable parking rules, there's no way to establish fault, and I suspect too often scooters are knocked over in blameless incidents.

    Dock them or ditch them.

    ...and hope my friend is right who thinks the dockless scooter companies will disappear but we will see individuals buy their own scooters, which they will have every incentive to park nicely (indoors).

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  12. #139
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    Steve O is offline I spend all day thinking about bikes and talking to people on the internet about them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    For the record, I think scooters are asinine. I just also think that trying to fine users for where the scooters end up is also asinine. It's a problem created by the scooter companies, they're the ones who need to figure out how to deal with it.
    According to the information we were given at the BAC meeting, scooter rides in the US outnumbered docked bikeshare rides in 2018 even though they did not exist for the entire year, while docked bikeshare systems have been around for about 10 years. About 40 million rides each. I will not be surprised if we see 200 million scooter rides this year and a billion within 2-3 years.
    So as asinine as they may or may not be, they are here to stay in a big way.
    The scooter companies are aware of these issues and are working hard to resolve them.
    When those new-fangled, horseless carriages showed up, there were not instantly traffic signals and parking meters and toll booths or even traffic cops. Governments, and for that matter, society, are racing to catch up to something that didn't even exist 18 months ago. A little chaos is to be expected.

    For the record, I have taken three scooter rides and have found them to be a useful mode for certain types of trips. I did not feel asinine using the scooter, although I may have looked it.

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  14. #140
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    Most of the Old Town NIMBYs insisting scooters will cause the world to end were saying the same thing about docked CaBi bikes a couple of years ago. If nothing else scooters have gotten them to appreciate CaBi, at least a little. But as someone who is a CaBi member, it does have its limitations. Inconvenient stations, empty stations, dock blocked stations. And the arduous process of siting stations, made harder by some of the same NIMBYs who now decry scooters.

    By the way when I have suggested that we need scooter parking corrals in Old Town, a common response is "don't take away car parking". Good luck getting those folks to approve of docking stations for scooters.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 06-13-2019 at 09:26 PM.

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