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Thread: LCSO Investigating Assault on Washington & Old Dominion Trail

  1. #21
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    Even if the perpetrator is telling the truth (haha) that he was waving, he left the scene of the incident. That is a crime and he should be cited for it.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Do we know the section of the trail where this occurred? Is it narrow to the point a split-the-middle pass would never be safe? Or is your position that split-the-middle passes can never be safe?

    If the last one, doesn't that limit the benefit of building wider trails? We're about to have a 16' wide portion of the Custis in Rosslyn - is that not wide enough to pass while there's oncoming traffic?

    I think one problem we have is that there aren't standards here for when it's ok to pass and with how much distance -- on the road we want three feet between a car passing a cyclist. Should we expect three feet between a cyclist and anyone they pass on the trail? Does that distance depend on who is being passed (cyclist v. runner v. walker v. kid v. stroller v. dog, etc)? Does that distance depend on speed differential (which is how I ride -- greater speed differential => more room to pass)?

    I think everyone would benefit from having more guidelines around these points.
    I agree that most of the W&OD (and Custis and Mt. Vernon and 4MR and Holmes Run Trail and Anacostia River Trail) are not wide enough to do a split pass. I agree that the challenge is that there is not a standard. Even the three foot standard for cars isn't great and relies on people's ability to estimate what three feet is. I love that Delaware has moved to full lane changes in most instances to pass a cyclist.

    I don't split pass on any of the trails in the area because they are too narrow to allow for a three foot pass. Anything less can be quite uncomfortable for oncoming traffic, particularly for walkers. I give the head shake of shame to individuals who do split pass when I'm oncoming. I've ridden trails in other places that are sufficiently wide to pass in the middle and provide three feet of space to both other parties.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    Even if the perpetrator is telling the truth (haha) that he was waving, he left the scene of the incident. That is a crime and he should be cited for it.
    "I was just doing an old timey right turn signal."

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    Even if the perpetrator is telling the truth (haha) that he was waving, he left the scene of the incident. That is a crime and he should be cited for it.
    Can you explain your reasoning? If I pass someone who is biking aggressively in my lane and there is a small amount of contact I would focus on maintaining direction and control. Looking back isn't on my todo list for at least a few seconds if at all especially if the traffic is heavy. So why would you expect the east bounder to even know there was an accident, let alone that it was serious? Turning around and heading back toward the westbound cyclist could be perceived as escalating an otherwise mild altercation especially if the east bound cyclist sees any mishap as the fault of the west bounder's bad riding.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Do we know the section of the trail where this occurred? Is it narrow to the point a split-the-middle pass would never be safe?
    There is no part of the W&OD that is wide enough to pass safely on the yellow line at speed.

    We're about to have a 16' wide portion of the Custis in Rosslyn - is that not wide enough to pass while there's oncoming traffic?
    If there's that much space, I'd much rather have designated cyclist & pedestrian portions, and still have cyclists change lanes to pass. 16 feet is actually a really awkward width--too narrow to segregate traffic effectively, but wide enough to encourage people to stop and have a chat when not wandering aimlessly in the luxurious wide lane.

    on the road we want three feet between a car passing a cyclist
    Actually, on the road I want a car passing a cyclist to change lanes. Three feet is what you should get when that's impossible, like passing in a no-passing zone when there's only a single lane in each direction, or in one of those god-awful 15 foot wide lanes VDOT likes--which should really just be restriped with a bike lane. (Or when you live in state where trying to get more than 3 feet out of a car-centric legislature is just not going to happen.) A car passing 3 feet from me with a 45MPH speed differential is never what I want.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    Can you explain your reasoning? If I pass someone who is biking aggressively in my lane and there is a small amount of contact I would focus on maintaining direction and control. Looking back isn't on my todo list for at least a few seconds if at all especially if the traffic is heavy. So why would you expect the east bounder to even know there was an accident, let alone that it was serious? Turning around and heading back toward the westbound cyclist could be perceived as escalating an otherwise mild altercation especially if the east bound cyclist sees any mishap as the fault of the west bounder's bad riding.
    "small amount of contact"?
    Why am I not surprised. ANY contact is reason to stop and communicate with the other rider. There is no "small" In this case a quick look back would have shown a rider down.

    BTW. I have ridden behind you plenty of times and you drive your electric car in the middle of both lanes. You have the habit of dipping one of the rear wheels into the bridal lane to let oncoming traffic proceed in their own lane. You take your 1/2 in the middle as the norm.
    Last edited by Vicegrip; 05-16-2018 at 06:06 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicegrip View Post
    BTW. I have ridden behind you plenty of times and you drive your electric car in the middle of both lanes. You have the habit of dipping one of the rear wheels into the bridal lane to let oncoming traffic proceed in their own lane. You take your 1/2 in the middle as the norm.
    I wish I could post about a topic without others trying to hijack it into a conversation about me. At least this reply illustrates how different observers can have different viewpoints on what happened which is relevant to the topic.

    First my tricycle has only one rear wheel so I suspect you meant that I dip one of my front wheels into the path. I do this when the oncoming traffic is walking or weaving on my side of the yellow line and I want to give them several feet of clearance. Of course if my wheel is in the bridle path I can't be taking my half out of the middle of the road so your allegation is inconsistent. I do move to the left when passing walkers especially if they have a pet even if they are walking off the path so maybe you mistaken that as riding down the middle. When my lane is clear I try to ride so the left tire track is 1 foot to the right of the yellow line.

    But enough about me. If one's arm is 2 feet and another foot for wrist and fingers then passing cycles have to be pretty close for one to clothesline another with enough force to swipe them off the bike. Or, the contact is just a touch because otherwise the wrist and fingers would be broken if one hit a helmet at 30mph with a stiff hand.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    I wish I could post about a topic without others trying to hijack it into a conversation about me.
    Sorry, but it’s to be expected when people’s broad experience with you on this forum and on the trails lead them not to trust your judgment.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd View Post
    I don't split pass on any of the trails in the area because they are too narrow to allow for a three foot pass. Anything less can be quite uncomfortable for oncoming traffic, particularly for walkers. I give the head shake of shame to individuals who do split pass when I'm oncoming.
    +1

    I never split pass. If I can't make it around someone in front of me before an oncoming rider comes through, I don't pass. Kinda like passing when I'm driving. Actually, EXACTLY like when I'm driving.

  10. #30
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    A suspect was apprehended by using Strava; http://loudounnow.com/2018/05/17/wod...-tracking-app/

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