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Thread: Rules and scoring thread

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    The best way to make freezing saddles more appealing is to dump individual stuff outside of pointless prizes and to focus on teams and making the team competition and experience better.
    In which case you're saying you'd rejoin?
    Last edited by musclys; 12-07-2017 at 08:07 AM. Reason: spelling is tough

  2. #102
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    Default ....Hold up... no manual entries!

    *Kitty, having managed to survive the Oct-December treadmill of holiday and professional obligations through triage and caffeine, now turns her attention to the next thing: BAFS. Over coffee she reviews the sticky and notices a rules change from past years. Sealing herself, she ventures into the thread she swore never to enter, the dreaded "Rules and scoring thread." Patiently, with an eye on the clock since she needs to gear up to ride to church, she goes through 11 pages of temporally crystallized early-December to come to this spot...

    She grimaces and takes a sip of her coffee before holding up a finger that seems to speak for her 'Now hold on just a minute...'"**

    Eleven pages. Eleven pages of bickering, and I didn't see a single thing about not accepting manual entries this year. Did I miss that somewhere in the applied calculus theory-crafting of pages 2-5?

    Can I get a referee to explain this to me? I get trying to avoid cheating, but my phone (aka my "Magic Strava Machine") is reaching the end of its life and prone to dying in cold weather. (Say nothing of the times when Strava fails on a whim) This causes me to have to do a follow-up Strava post to log the missing miles. I wish I could just rely on an error-free upload but that's not the case.

  3. #103
    DismalScientist is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    To summarize this rule change: sometimes life just sucks.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty View Post

    Can I get a referee to explain this to me? I get trying to avoid cheating, but my phone (aka my "Magic Strava Machine") is reaching the end of its life and prone to dying in cold weather. (Say nothing of the times when Strava fails on a whim) This causes me to have to do a follow-up Strava post to log the missing miles. I wish I could just rely on an error-free upload but that's not the case.
    TLDR version: Manual entries make a bunch of other leaderboards very difficult to implement because they lack elevation and geographic data.



    This does present a challenge for folks using phones to Strava since cold weather kills batteries (even worse when combined with an old phone). The good news is that you'll still be allowed to upload a file to Strava, so if you have a fail on a regular commute, you can download a previous commute, edit the file to change the date/time and upload it. If it's a non-commute and you're riding with someone, Strava now allows riders to easily copy rides from other people within Strava. If you have a Strava fail this year, I can help you with doing either of these.

  5. #105
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    Put the phone next to you on the inside of the insulation layers. Now if it gets too cold the phone is the least of your worries.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty View Post
    Eleven pages of bickering, and I didn't see a single thing about not accepting manual entries this year.
    1. We didn't accept manual entries last year, either.

    2. See the sticky at the top of the forum? The one that says, "Freezing Saddles Important Information"? The one that is linked (twice!) right on the registration page, and again in the welcome e-mail that already went out? It says, "We no longer count manually entered rides."
    Last edited by cvcalhoun; 12-31-2017 at 11:47 AM.

  7. #107
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    Thanks for the info. As a data wonk, I understand how that would mess with things. If I run into issues, I'll hit you up Judd for some gpx-fu.

    As for the rule itself, Somehow I missed it last year? The sticky straight-up reads: "Manual entries will also not be accepted. This is a change from previous years." Leading me to believe it was new this year. Without that clause it wouldn't have seemed like a new thing. (A "the sin is in semantics" situation)

  8. #108
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    The spread between the #1 team and the #22 team is currently 65%. I just ran 10 randomized sets of teams. The average (and median) spread last to first was 74%, so only barely worse than what we have. 2 out of the 10 randomized teams were actually better than 65%.

    This thread included a well supported discussion of ideas that might reduce that spread, which would tighten the competition and potentially make it more fun. One idea that had a good deal of traction was to count miles 3, 4, 5 more than miles 63, 74 and 85. A couple of those ideas are copied below.

    We left this thread with the suggestion that some alternative scoring systems be beta tested this year, so we would have 9 months to argue about them. I'd be curious to see how the below ideas might tighten the scores among the teams. Is there a chance that these could be test-driven? Perhaps simply add columns to the current DRASS leaderboard rather than create entirely new ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob James View Post
    Below is an example, of accelerating returns/points. At first it appears no difference in point spread, but if that century rider skips a day of riding and a daily rider does 10 miles, they would gain 65 points on the sporadic century rider (and more importantly team points).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    If someone rides at least 10 miles a day, there is no loss of points, i.e. no penalty for riding more, but was dramatically encouraged to ride daily by the scoring system. It would be very difficult to voluntarily forfeit up to 55 bonus points just because it was sub-freezing temps and/or wet conditions. It's not really a change to the current scoring system (1 mile is still 11 points), but an extension of it, with the same goal of encouraging daily riding.
    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post
    If someone wants to propose a diminishing mileage formula that seems reasonable, I'm generally in favor of the idea. I was trying to see if I could find other similar scoring systems that had been used elsewhere, but hadn't turned up anything in brief research.
    Quote Originally Posted by LhasaCM View Post
    As "food for thought" - here's a quick example of a "tiered" system of diminishing returns for the number of miles ridden in a given day, separate from the bonus points idea. This is setup so that after every 10 mile increment, the value of the next incremental mile is reduced by, for example, 10%. In other words, 1 point per mile up to 10, 0.9 points per mile for anything between 10 and 20, 0.81 points per mile for anything between 20 and 30, etc. The Excel formula to calculate that is: 10*((1-0.9^ROUNDDOWN(MILES/10,0))/(1-0.9))+MOD(MILES,10)*(0.9^ROUNDDOWN(MILES/10,0)) That decreases a little bit faster than the previous example, with the 101st mile being worth 0.35 points. You can make it diminish faster or slower easily enough by changing the 0.9 figure either lower or higher. The table below shows what happens every 10 miles for 0.95, 0.9, 0.8, and 0.7.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    One could mix and match so that you have a similar tiered idea, but with accelerating discounts (i.e., maybe you start with a 0.9 factor but make it 0.8 after 40 miles and 0.7 after 80 miles or whatever). Again - it all depends on what you want the results to look like.

  9. #109
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    The other idea I'm wondering about is the "rides with" concept that was also suggested.
    Would it be hard to capture the number of unique other FS participants each rider has ridden with?

  10. #110
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    Unfortunately "ride with" data has suffered Strava privacy api changes, so I don't think we can actually use this data anymore.

    I'd love to play with scoring, but as expected my work has kicked into overdrive until June, so I don't anticipate much time to play with this. Would have hoped to outsource this, but so far the number of FS web volunteers hasn't translated into any help on the backend.

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