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Thread: Idaho comes to Delaware

  1. #41
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    You guys are going through pretty extraordinary lengths to justify rolling through stop signs instead of just saying that it's physically harder to start pedaling a bicycle for a complete stop and you don't like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd View Post
    You guys are going through pretty extraordinary lengths to justify rolling through stop signs instead of just saying that it's physically harder to start pedaling a bicycle for a complete stop and you don't like it.
    I am trying to explain why legalizing the Delaware stop is good policy. And yes, one reason it's good is that it makes riding easier, leading to more riders, which increases safety for several reasons.

    People are responding because they are being challenged. I never find myself challenged for driving 1MPH over the speed limit, or for walking across Park Center Drive outside the crosswalk. Why is it terrible that cyclists act for both safety and convience, when drivers and walkers do the same?

    BTW, personally I just about never Idaho reds, and stop at stop signs more than most riders I see. Despite needing the momentum more. I am not the poster boy for scofflaw riding. But I strongly feel that there is collective wisdom in what cyclists do, and it being illegal is a bad thing. Again a point that the Delaware State Police agreed with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    I am trying to explain why legalizing the Delaware stop is good policy. And yes, one reason it's good is that it makes riding easier, leading to more riders, which increases safety for several reasons.

    People are responding because they are being challenged. I never find myself challenged for driving 1MPH over the speed limit, or for walking across Park Center Drive outside the crosswalk. Why is it terrible that cyclists act for both safety and convience, when drivers and walkers do the same?

    BTW, personally I just about never Idaho reds, and stop at stop signs more than most riders I see. Despite needing the momentum more. I am not the poster boy for scofflaw riding. But I strongly feel that there is collective wisdom in what cyclists do, and it being illegal is a bad thing. Again a point that the Delaware State Police agreed with.
    Plus, from a philosophical standpoint, the idea of laws changing in concession to practical reality is generally a good thing in my book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoWheelsDC View Post
    Slightly off-topic, but I think automatic transmissions are a big factor. With a manual, it's much harder to roll through an intersection, since you gotta slow down enough to get into 1st and pretty much stop to engage the clutch smoothly. Manual transmissions should be mandatory except for the disabled or those with a demonstrable need for an automatic.
    Oh man! If the manual transmission were suddenly mandated, imagine how many drivers it would take off the road! (Myself included.)

    Person A: "I dunno, do you want to just drive there?"
    Person B: "Sorry, I can't drive stick. I guess we'll have to go by bike/bus/Metro/foot/shopping-cart-propelled-by-dachshunds..."

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  9. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    This is why I accelerate from stop signs in second gear.
    Yeah, exactly. I don't think it is any harder to roll a stop sign in a manual. Just leave it in second gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post
    Yeah, exactly. I don't think it is any harder to roll a stop sign in a manual. Just leave it in second gear.
    Depends on the car, I think. With my Hondas, the gear ratio was great for that--far better than first, and in snow, I'd even start from a dead stop in second. But with my Subaru, unless I'm going above a certain minimum (varies depending a bit on the gradient), it could lug the engine or stall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huskerdont View Post
    Depends on the car, I think. With my Hondas, the gear ratio was great for that--far better than first, and in snow, I'd even start from a dead stop in second. But with my Subaru, unless I'm going above a certain minimum (varies depending a bit on the gradient), it could lug the engine or stall.
    As a kid we had an old 4spd F-150. You only needed 1st if fully loaded and starting out on a hill. If revved it high enough I could get it moving in third without stalling out.

    It was also fairly easy to powershift, but that was probably more the worn synchros than my ability to rev match

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930AZ using Tapatalk

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    My synchros really suck so that it is difficult to shift into first even when I am completely stopped. That's why I leave it in second and slow roll through stop signs. It's just too difficult to come to a complete stop with a manual transmission car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    My synchros really suck so that it is difficult to shift into first even when I am completely stopped. That's why I leave it in second and slow roll through stop signs. It's just too difficult to come to a complete stop with a manual transmission car.
    Ha, that's funny . Yeah, my synchros were shot in my Saab 900, so I also had to use 2nd for everything. It made for some scary moments on hills. OTOH, yeah, my Acura TL could go from a stop in third; that was a pretty powerful car (and I'm sure the ratios helped).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DismalScientist View Post
    My synchros really suck so that it is difficult to shift into first even when I am completely stopped. That's why I leave it in second and slow roll through stop signs. It's just too difficult to come to a complete stop with a manual transmission car.
    So, when driving, do you alter your route to avoid stop signs? There is some evidence that the legal status of Delaware stops impacts cyclist route choice - when its illegal riders are more likely to choose routes with fewer stop signs, which often means choosing roads that are faster with higher traffic volumes over quiet residential back streets - with negative safety consequences for the people on bikes.

    Now some of the riders here, who are relatively fast, relatively confident, or both, may seldom choose those slow residential back streets anyway, and so be less inconvenienced by coming to a full stop every single block. And that is okay. But I think we should at least be aware of all the reasons people choose to Delaware, and all the ramifications of both choices.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 10-18-2017 at 10:56 AM.

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