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Thread: 22 Mile Trail Parallel to I-66 -- Helpful Video and Input Needed

  1. #11
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    Default Tunnels at I-66 Exits

    Quote Originally Posted by ursus View Post
    I have been wandering around the website from the original post in this thread. Is there something that discusses or illustrates what happens to the bikepath at vehicular entrances/exits to I-66?
    From the maps, it appears that they all will be tunnels, or whatever "Shared Path Structure Box" means.

    If you want to see the maps, go here, then download the last map first and work your way up, so you would see them from east to west. The trail is not one straight line from west to east. Some segments detour to nearby Bike-Friendly Roads. It ends at Gallows RD at Dunn Loring Metro, and from there you would continue on Gallows to join the W&OD.

    Here are the list of detours from Centreville to Dunn Loring metro:

    Vienna metro: Exit at Black Lane, then use Sutton RD/Country Creek RD to get to the tunnel at Nuttly ST. See Google map here.
    Rt50/Fair Oaks Mall: Get to West OX Rd, Post Forest RD, Random Hill RD. There is a trail segment from I-66 tunnel that needs to be build by others(County, etc.) to connect it to Random Hill RD. See Google map here.
    Rt28/Braddock/Sully RD: Requires a trail segment from I-66 tunnel that needs to be build by others(County, etc.)

    I don't see any trails west of Centreville.

  2. #12
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    They're seriously planning to put the "trail" inside the sound wall?!?!

    DFA$%UJFsthgdjw^r <forehead banging on keyboard>

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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by n18 View Post
    My main problem with the trail is how much Sun exposure it gets so any snow would melt faster. Ideally it should be to the south of I-66 including the south of any noise wall. However, the current design puts it to the north side of I-66, and the noise wall is north of it.

    Here is the current design:

    <NORTH>
    <Noise wall>
    <TRAIL> <-- Gets full Sun here
    <Road lanes here>
    <Road lanes here>
    <Road lanes here>
    <Road lanes here>
    <SOUTH>

    If they just switch the noise wall so it's between the trail and cars, then the trail doesn't get sun in the winter months:

    <NORTH>
    <TRAIL> <-- No Sun here
    <Noise wall>
    <Road lanes here>
    <Road lanes here>
    <Road lanes here>
    <SOUTH>

    What I prefer:

    <NORTH>
    <Road lanes here>
    <Road lanes here>
    <Road lanes here>
    <Noise wall>
    <TRAIL> <-- Gets some Sun here because of possible trees and building to the south
    <SOUTH>



    And after seeing the video, I don't like it. We are blocked from seeing trees and birds with tall noise wall, so it's not enjoyable, and only 2 feet tall barrier between us and cars, so it's not safe. However; on the plus side, car drivers would be able to see us going faster than they are. Unfortunately, I can't get to the meetings either.
    The Woodrow Wilson bridge trail has clear sound barriers between traffic and the trails on the Virginia part of it which works quite well. That would be a solution to keep the trail on the north side, which I'm assuming has been surveyed out, while getting sun to the trail in winter. It would also allow drivers to see how much faster bikes go than cars during rush hour.

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  6. #14
    Steve O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amalitza View Post
    They're seriously planning to put the "trail" inside the sound wall?!?!
    To protect the neighbors from the sound of clicking freewheels I think.

    Seriously, though. There is no way this makes any sense from either a usefulness or safety point of view.

    • There is no way the trail can be cleaned of debris or snow. With the soundwall on one side and the barrier on the other, it is impossible to plow.
    • For debris, there would need to be some sort of custom trail cleaning vehicle that would need to be out there at least weekly. It would either have to be pretty small or it would block the entire trail (with no way to go around, see below)
    • Undoubtedly stuff that falls off cars (mattresses, abandoned tires, etc.) will get thrown onto the trail, because that's the obvious way to get it out of the road.
    • In the cases of the trail being blocked (car crash involving a vehicle encroaching on the trail or something) there appears to be no way to go around. Trail users are essentially trapped in the trail by the soundwall.

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    These are all really great comments -- again, if you can't attend a meeting and haven't already contacted VDOT, I implore you to cut and paste your comment and send it to Transform66@VDOT.Virginia.gov.

    The discussion here has been helpful for me to formulate my comment, so by all means, keep talking here, but also let VDOT know. They are the ones who can do something about it.

    Thanks, everyone.

    Liz

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  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by eminva View Post
    These are all really great comments -- again, if you can't attend a meeting and haven't already contacted VDOT, I implore you to cut and paste your comment and send it to Transform66@VDOT.Virginia.gov.

    The discussion here has been helpful for me to formulate my comment, so by all means, keep talking here, but also let VDOT know. They are the ones who can do something about it.

    Thanks, everyone.

    Liz
    Here is what I sent if anyone would like to borrow any of my ideas.
    Hello,

    I was recently made aware of current plans for design of sections of the Multi-Use path that will be constructed as part of the Transform I-66 project. It is good that Virginia is improving travel choices for citizens, so thank you.

    I watched this video prepared by Fairfax Advocates for Better Bicycling (FABB): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7nl...ature=youtu.be

    The video shows the trail being inside the sound wall. This is an extraordinarily poor design decision for a long host of reasons:


    • People on bikes and people on foot are not noisy
    • There is no way to plow the trail. With the sound wall on one side and the barrier on the other, the snow cannot be pushed anywhere
    • VDOT plows are likely to plow the snow onto the trail, rendering it useless (this already happens. It happened to me while I was riding. See video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJKzW2JRGos
    • For debris, there would need to be some sort of custom trail cleaning vehicle that would need to be out there at least weekly. It would either have to be pretty small or it would block the entire trail (with no way to go around, see below)
    • Undoubtedly stuff that falls off cars (mattresses, abandoned tires, etc.) will get thrown onto the trail, because that's the obvious way to get it out of the road.
    • In the cases of the trail being blocked (car crash involving a vehicle encroaching on the trail or something) there appears to be no way to go around. Trail users are essentially trapped in the trail by the soundwall
    • Providing convenient connections to nearby streets and neighborhoods is either impossible or will require numerous breaks in the soundwall.
    • The actual user experience will be highly unpleasant, close to high-speed, noisy traffic and the concomitant air pollutants. This will reduce the likelihood of people actually using the trail and therefore reducing the effect of including this multi-modal option in the Transform I-66 project.


    The Custis Trail in Arlington is almost entirely outside the sound wall. Although not perfect, many people use this trail for both transportation and recreation who almost certainly would not if it were inside the sound wall next to the expressway. In fact, the least pleasant part of the trail is the section under the parking deck, where the trail is essentially adjacent to the roadway. I know of people who avoid this section of the trail, and just this section, preferring to use parallel surface streets instead.

    It seems that the design engineers did not give due consideration to either user experience nor to trail maintenance issues for the Transform I-66 Multi-Use Path. I strongly support revisiting this design. As depicted in the FABB video, it is awful.

    If the Transform I-66 project is to achieve its greatest success, then the choices offered to travelers of all modes should be optimized as much as possible. If the choice of walking or biking is made as convenient and pleasant as possible, then more people will choose that option, improving travel experience for everyone. The current design completely misses the mark on that count.

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  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    Here is what I sent if anyone would like to borrow any of my ideas.
    Shamelessly plagiarized (with some tweaks...) and sent. Thanks for the good ideas--my sleep deprived brain needed the inspiration!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    • There is no way the trail can be cleaned of debris or snow. With the soundwall on one side and the barrier on the other, it is impossible to plow.
    • For debris, there would need to be some sort of custom trail cleaning vehicle that would need to be out there at least weekly. It would either have to be pretty small or it would block the entire trail (with no way to go around, see below)
    "VDOT doesn't clear trails" = problem solved

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  14. #19
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    Even on the Woodrow Wilson (495) bridge they had the sense to put the sound wall between the path and the traffic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anomad View Post
    Even on the Woodrow Wilson (495) bridge they had the sense to put the sound wall between the path and the traffic.
    That sound wall is freaking amazing too. Incredibly quiet on the trail side.

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