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Thread: June 2017 Road & Trail Conditions

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd View Post
    I hope they're making it a non-combined sewer outlet.
    Patience, the fix to the Combined Sewer Outflow problem is years and many dollars away. I think this is maintenance work.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd View Post
    I hope they're making it a non-combined sewer outlet.
    Technically, IIUC, they are never making any of the four into non-combined sewer outlets, as in fully separating waste water from storm water. That would involve entire parallel systems, and retrofitting is too expensive. What they will do (as DC is doing) is add storage tanks/pipes that will hold enough of the combined stuff, after storms, that it can all be treated without a surge that overwhelms treatment capacity.

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    Technically, IIUC, they are never making any of the four into non-combined sewer outlets, as in fully separating waste water from storm water. That would involve entire parallel systems, and retrofitting is too expensive. What they will do (as DC is doing) is add storage tanks/pipes that will hold enough of the combined stuff, after storms, that it can all be treated without a surge that overwhelms treatment capacity.
    Sweet. I'm awaiting Bobco to announce the "Let's bike the Alexandria underground poo tunnel" ride in his continuing Let's Bike Some Piece of Infrastructure Rides.

    I've lived mostly in places that were established a little bit later in history that they had segregated storm sewers and sanitary sewers so living some place where raw sewage ends up in the river bums me out big time and I shudder every time I see someone paddle boarding in the Potomac.

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd View Post
    Sweet. I'm awaiting Bobco to announce the "Let's bike the Alexandria underground poo tunnel" ride in his continuing Let's Bike Some Piece of Infrastructure Rides.

    I've lived mostly in places that were established a little bit later in history that they had segregated storm sewers and sanitary sewers so living some place where raw sewage ends up in the river bums me out big time and I shudder every time I see someone paddle boarding in the Potomac.
    I think combined sewer overflow is mostly an issue with heavy rains. Of course, after heavy rains is usually when the best paddling is.

  8. #45
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    ALERT: Arlington County seems to be running a campaign to catch cyclists running through the 4 way stop intersection of North Van Buren St and 19th St N, between the WOD and Benjamin Banneker Park, near the East Falls Church Metro station. @SaraBee got ticketed there last week. I saw the patrol there this morning around 0900 am.

    Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    What they will do (as DC is doing) is add storage tanks/pipes that will hold enough of the combined stuff, after storms, that it can all be treated without a surge that overwhelms treatment capacity.
    Do you know how much increase in demand they're designing for? Council keeps approving big residential and hotel development in the combined sewer area and I imagine climate change will likely increase the volume of storm water peaks...

  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer2U View Post
    ALERT: Arlington County seems to be running a campaign to catch cyclists running through the 4 way stop intersection of North Van Buren St and 19th St N, between the WOD and Benjamin Banneker Park, near the East Falls Church Metro station. @SaraBee got ticketed there last week. I saw the patrol there this morning around 0900 am.

    Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk
    It's the annual 10 day effort. No signs this time, and no presence early this morning, or this afternoon in the rain.

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  13. #48
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    On behalf of @wheels&wings

    At about 1:00 today work trucks were parked on the downstream/east sidewalk along Lynn between Key Bridge and IOD forcing cyclists into the opposite-direction travel lane. From her Strava post:

    "I asked one of the workers if there were a better route for bicycle riders. He confirmed that I had done the right thing, using the lane against traffic on Lynn. Kudos to Arlington for not inconveniencing car traffic in the slightest. WTF?"

    You might want to try crossing to the upstream/west side of Key Bridge in Georgetown if headed for the Custis today.

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  15. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterw_diy View Post
    Do you know how much increase in demand they're designing for? Council keeps approving big residential and hotel development in the combined sewer area and I imagine climate change will likely increase the volume of storm water peaks...
    I am not sure, but note, the demand for storage space in the tanks will be driven by the stormwater, not the sewage flows - the former are much larger, which is what creates the mismatch between between demand and treatment capacity in the first place (we build treatment capacity for the sewage flows) So the increase in population matters less (if it matters at all) than changes to pervious surface area (and much or most of the new development is occuring on existing impervious surface). Note well, many of the new developments will feature things like rain gardens, green roofs, etc, that help mitigate the stormwater problem. That is another part of the proposed solution in addition to the storage tanks/tunnels. However given the massive amount of existing impervious surface and resultant stormwater runoff in Old Town, that can only be a small part of the solution.


    See the following:
    Based on an evaluation of implementing GI in
    the CSS, it would not possible to achieve the goals of the LTCPU through implementation of GI alone;
    therefore, it was not selected as a primary strategy. However, GI can help to further reduce the CSO
    volume as a complementary strategy in conjunction with conventional gray infrastructure, along with
    providing other ancillary benefits. While GI was eliminated as a primary strategy of the LTCPU, it was
    recommended as a complementary strategy to be implemented throughout the City to help achieve the
    goals of the Hunting Creek TMDL. More detailed information about green infrastructure as a primary
    strategy can be found in the Alternatives Evaluation: Green Infrastructure Technical Memorandum


    TLDR version - Nah, its not the urbanist new development that's the problem, its the Old Town that the NIMBYs love that's the problem.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 06-26-2017 at 04:20 PM.

  16. #50
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    I just took a tour of the Blue Plains wastewater treatment plant and heard all about that. Let's just say lordofthemark knows his shit. So to speak.

    Another thing that helps a lot is urban tree canopy. If it were up to me there would be a lot more trees and a lot less cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    I am not sure, but note, the demand for storage space in the tanks will be driven by the stormwater, not the sewage flows - the former are much larger, which is what creates the mismatch between between demand and treatment capacity in the first place (we build treatment capacity for the sewage flows) So the increase in population matters less (if it matters at all) than changes to pervious surface area (and much or most of the new development is occuring on existing impervious surface). Note well, many of the new developments will feature things like rain gardens, green roofs, etc, that help mitigate the stormwater problem. That is another part of the proposed solution in addition to the storage tanks/tunnels. However given the massive amount of existing impervious surface and resultant stormwater runoff in Old Town, that can only be a small part of the solution.


    See the following:
    Based on an evaluation of implementing GI in
    the CSS, it would not possible to achieve the goals of the LTCPU through implementation of GI alone;
    therefore, it was not selected as a primary strategy. However, GI can help to further reduce the CSO
    volume as a complementary strategy in conjunction with conventional gray infrastructure, along with
    providing other ancillary benefits. While GI was eliminated as a primary strategy of the LTCPU, it was
    recommended as a complementary strategy to be implemented throughout the City to help achieve the
    goals of the Hunting Creek TMDL. More detailed information about green infrastructure as a primary
    strategy can be found in the Alternatives Evaluation: Green Infrastructure Technical Memorandum


    TLDR version - Nah, its not the urbanist new development that's the problem, its the Old Town that the NIMBYs love that's the problem.

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