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Thread: Guys - don't shout at women

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskerdont View Post
    While I can kind of understand that viewpoint, surely you can see that those are not the only two options?

    The guy did look a bit tonked rather than staring at the leader's rear, but a bit of awareness about how your actions might be perceived goes a long way. He was right behind her for quite a long way and needed to be aware that this would be annoying at the very least and creepy/intimidating/scary at the worst.
    This.

    Today on the ride in I rolled up on a wad-O-folks at Gallows waiting to continue West. This thread came to mind and I mentally opened my enhanced observation app. The wad rolled out just as I got there* and we all rolled through and had us a little peloton for a while. Slightly slower than I roll but too fast for me to pass a string of 6 in reasonable time. We rolled along and things sorted out when 2 bolted, one shifted back and my turn came up. No conversation was made. In this case there was a simple reason for the group to form and dissipate and I rode the wheel in front as that rider did the same to the next wheel up. Had this been a lady or single rider I would have left 2 or so bike length until the opportunity to pass came up. A mix of experience in Mup riding and some tolerance with fellow riders might be the thing rather than drastic ideas or measures.

    *Don't you just love a well timed light? All that mo-men-tum you get to bank.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    The world seems pretty hostile to men if every choice is wrong. If he passes it is a dangerous pass and all men are sexists jerks for needing to show women their place. If he hangs back to let a more experienced biker set the pace he is creepy. So what to do?
    You are presenting a false dilemma. This is not an either or situation. How about hang back far enough not to be a total creepy asshat (this means a few bike lengths away)? You approach and get close during the brief period required for you to prepare to pass someone. Even on crazy busy trails, I rarely if ever find myself close to another cyclist for more than a mile. If you realize due to oncoming cyclists/blind curves/etc that it might be awhile before you can pass, hang back and just chill. Or if you realize you're going roughly the same pace, hang back, but make sure to stay a few bike lengths away so you're not a total creeper, and can react safely if the lead cyclist does something unpredictable. If you feel like you're bonking out and want to bike close to a stranger, say hi and ask if that's ok.

    This isn't just something to do for women, do it for everyone so you're not a jerk. When I've had people tail me for awhile I get super creeped out, but that ends when they come up and say hello (either while biking, or at a stop light). But when they creepy tail me for miles, or play leapfrog because they want to pretend to be faster than me for a few yards, I get pissed off or worried too.
    Last edited by Emm; 06-06-2017 at 08:14 AM. Reason: *you're

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  4. #73
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    dasgeh is offline Queen of Family Biking & All Things Kidical
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    The world seems pretty hostile to men if every choice is wrong.
    Nope, you missed the point. Unsafe passes are wrong, and creepily riding really close to someone is wrong. Aside from those, as others have pointed out, you have a world of options. Say hi and don't be a creep. Hang back a bike length or two. Pass safely and ride on. Stop and tie your shoe.

    This is true whether the other rider is a man or a woman. I've heard from plenty of guys that they don't like wheel suckers, too. Like women, some just aren't racers and don't like that sort of proximity. Some also get creeped out. Some worry that a stranger whose sucking wheel might be a sucky rider or a really tired rider, and might end up causing them to crash. Just don't draft on trails unless (1) you are able to do so safely; (2) the conditions allow you to do so safely; and (3) the person in the front is ok with it.

    The better analogy (though not great) in a car is tailgating. When that jerk is on your bumper on the interstate, it's creepy and annoying. You shouldn't drive on someone's bumper.

  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by eminva View Post
    ... in the category of being slightly freaked out by someone following me who had not communicated in any way. It impacts my sense of safety. I sped up, he fell back and then worked hard to catch up. I slowed down and he bided his time behind me. I couldn't shake him or get him to go around.
    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    The guy was zoned out and didn't wish to think about or expend the effort to pass. The leader who doesn't want to be leader either stops, forcing the follower to the front, or as in this case outruns the follower.
    I mean, let's not let what Liz actually experienced and described get in the way of believing something completely different happened. That's not condescending to her AT ALL.

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  7. #75
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    TwoWheelsDC is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    A culture that claims the mere presence of a man is a hostile threatening environment for women makes the environment a hostile one for men.
    There are a lot of things that worry me about our culture...it becoming a hostile environment for men isn't one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoWheelsDC View Post
    There are a lot of things that worry me about our culture...it becoming a hostile environment for men isn't one.
    It's a false equivalence anyway. Me having to be slightly more aware of how my actions might be perceived, and perhaps occasionally getting it wrong in another person's opinion and handling that consequence, is far less of a "hostile" environment than having to worry about being attacked whenever one is out on the trail alone. It doesn't even compare. Be considerate or don't be considerate, but if you're not considerate and someone calls you out on it, that's not a hostile environment and you aren't a victim.

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  11. #77
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    God forbid if e-bikes ever get adaptive cruise control. This forum would uhspload.

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  13. #78
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    Drafting should never, ever occur unless both riders are aware of each other and are cool with it. Anything else is dangerous as well as impolite.

    Following but not drafting also requires a level of courtesy as has been being discussed. Actual drafting, though, is a step up.

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  15. #79
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    Leave it to the guy who insists on driving his car on the trails to complain that being considerate of others makes him a victim.

    Sad!

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  17. #80
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    If this thread were about wheel suckers I'd join in complaining. I dislike tailgaters too. I dislike when couples and groups ride side by side and take up more than half the trail. I worry about how rude behavior impacts rider safety. All good stuff worth discussing without mentioning the sex of the perps.

    But it isn't. It is instead exploring the premise that it is men's fault that women are unable to use and enjoy the bike paths.

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