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Thread: Guys - don't shout at women

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoot View Post
    Thanks. That would suggest that the 24% might be a simple fraction of people, i.e. 24% of people who self-identify as cyclists are women. If so, it would not include any weighting for time spent riding or total distance traveled.
    According to a People For Bikes blog post from a couple of years back (http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/e...tsand-some-sur), the 2009 National Household Travel Survey found that 24% of bicycle trips were made by women. That's similar to a study that was done of bikeshare usage in NYC, Chicago, and Boston covering part of 2013. However, a survey from 2014 found that, of the 104 million people who rode a bike the previous year, 43% were women.

    It'll be interesting to see what comes out of the 2016 NHTS once the data is published (collected just ended, so publication is slated for early 2018).

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    Quote Originally Posted by eminva View Post
    Gallows on the green!!!!! (buh-bye, wheelsucker)

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    Quote Originally Posted by eminva View Post
    Love the way you dropped him! What was the message there? I mean I generally hate wheel suckers too, but is that better or worse than a guy passing you 'because you're a girl', then you have to pass him back because you're actually stronger and fitter? Neither scenario is great.

    As a large guy, I think I tend to draw wheel suckers to me because my draft is like a semi compared to you 100lb dudes and dudettes. After taking a break for a few minutes they always fly by me without any acknowledgement. Sad!

    Lastly - what camera is that? I've been meaning to get a rear view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by creadinger View Post
    Love the way you dropped him! What was the message there? I mean I generally hate wheel suckers too, but is that better or worse than a guy passing you 'because you're a girl', then you have to pass him back because you're actually stronger and fitter? Neither scenario is great.
    It was more in the category of being slightly freaked out by someone following me who had not communicated in any way. It impacts my sense of safety. I sped up, he fell back and then worked hard to catch up. I slowed down and he bided his time behind me. I couldn't shake him or get him to go around. In this case, it was a busy day on the trail so I was not worried, but in the dead of winter when the same headlight is right behind me for five miles, with few other cyclists or pedestrians around . . . that does worry me. I start thinking about what 7-Elevens closest to the trail are coming up.

    If he said, "Hey, it was a nice day and I overdid it. I totally bonked on the way home. Can I follow you for a while?" I probably would have said, "Sure!" It's all a matter of communicating intent.

    Just FYI: I posted this on Facebook. Response from male friends was muted; a few complimented me on the drop. My female friends, cyclists but especially non-cyclists, expressed concern for my safety, describing the behavior as "creepy."

    Quote Originally Posted by creadinger View Post
    As a large guy, I think I tend to draw wheel suckers to me because my draft is like a semi compared to you 100lb dudes and dudettes. After taking a break for a few minutes they always fly by me without any acknowledgement. Sad!
    That is sad. They should take a turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by creadinger View Post
    Lastly - what camera is that? I've been meaning to get a rear view.
    Cycliq Fly 6 -- an earlier version of what they offer now.

    Liz

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    Quote Originally Posted by eminva View Post
    It was more in the category of being slightly freaked out by someone following me who had not communicated in any way. It impacts my sense of safety. I sped up, he fell back and then worked hard to catch up. I slowed down and he bided his time behind me. I couldn't shake him or get him to go around. In this case, it was a busy day on the trail so I was not worried, but in the dead of winter when the same headlight is right behind me for five miles, with few other cyclists or pedestrians around . . . that does worry me. I start thinking about what 7-Elevens closest to the trail are coming up.

    If he said, "Hey, it was a nice day and I overdid it. I totally bonked on the way home. Can I follow you for a while?" I probably would have said, "Sure!" It's all a matter of communicating intent.

    Just FYI: I posted this on Facebook. Response from male friends was muted; a few complimented me on the drop. My female friends, cyclists but especially non-cyclists, expressed concern for my safety, describing the behavior as "creepy."



    That is sad. They should take a turn.



    Cycliq Fly 6 -- an earlier version of what they offer now.

    Liz
    Add me to the comp the drop group. That drop was priceless. Thanks for the share.

    I bet a lot of the wheel suckers don't know the bother they might cause. I can see where a guy might be annoyed by the same actions that a woman would see as creepy.
    I have never ever had someone ask to draft me when they dropped in behind me. I have turned around and said "Hi" now and then and that has opened up a conversation. Early on in my adult riding one guy said hi back and then thanked me for the break from the wind as he was tapped out. That sort of set the tone for how I deal with wheel suckers. For the most part I don't care all that much if I get a drafter unless they are tight or 1/2 wheelers. You Do Not 1/2 wheel. That said I am a 185 pound guy with a working mans physique. I can 100% see why ladies would be disturbed by a wheel sucker.
    Wheel sucking has its risks too. I was riding east on the Wod and did not know I had picked up a silent sucker. I had myself a rather good sized and satisfying "gastrointestinal event" of the sort that is often done in private and down wind. Both of which I though I was at the time. About 10 seconds later I hear the Fzzzzzzz of a freewheeling hub. Look back and see a guy drifting back off my wheel.
    Last edited by Vicegrip; 06-05-2017 at 03:24 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by eminva View Post
    Not sure how it's 2017 and there are still guys who seem to have no awareness that this could, at the very least, be perceived as creepy, regardless of what was actually going through his head at the time. One doesn't have to intend to create a hostile or threatening environment to actually do so. It takes like 0.5% extra brain power to consider these things as you go about your day guys...I think we can do it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoWheelsDC View Post
    Not sure how it's 2017 and there are still guys who seem to have no awareness that this could, at the very least, be perceived as creepy, regardless of what was actually going through his head at the time. One doesn't have to intend to create a hostile or threatening environment to actually do so. It takes like 0.5% extra brain power to consider these things as you go about your day guys...I think we can do it!
    The world seems pretty hostile to men if every choice is wrong. If he passes it is a dangerous pass and all men are sexists jerks for needing to show women their place. If he hangs back to let a more experienced biker set the pace he is creepy. So what to do? A segregated society with paths just for women isn't the right approach. A culture that claims the mere presence of a man is a hostile threatening environment for women makes the environment a hostile one for men.

    When driving cars we often have people follow us for miles because by focusing on just the vehicle ahead one can zone out. If the vehicle slows the follower slows because they are relying on the leader to scan ahead for dangers and set the speed. it is not intimidating until it becomes aggressive which requires active communication like horn blowing and reckless actions. Leaders who hate to be leaders either slow down or passive-aggressively use their windshield wiper spray to force followers to concentrate on driving.

    This video was cut presumably to only show the close encounters, which were short. The guy was zoned out and didn't wish to think about or expend the effort to pass. The leader who doesn't want to be leader either stops, forcing the follower to the front, or as in this case outruns the follower.
    Last edited by SolarBikeCar; 06-06-2017 at 07:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    The world seems pretty hostile to men if every choice is wrong. If he passes it is a dangerous pass and all men are sexists jerks for needing to show women their place. If he hangs back to let a more experienced biker set the pace he is creepy.
    While I can kind of understand that viewpoint, surely you can see that those are not the only two options?

    The guy did look a bit tonked rather than staring at the leader's rear, but a bit of awareness about how your actions might be perceived goes a long way. He was right behind her for quite a long way and needed to be aware that this would be annoying at the very least and creepy/intimidating/scary at the worst.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarBikeCar View Post
    The world seems pretty hostile to men if every choice is wrong. If he passes it is a dangerous pass and all men are sexists jerks for needing to show women their place. If he hangs back to let a more experienced biker set the pace he is creepy. So what to do?
    Thank you for your question. I am not the most experienced rider here, but my suggestion would be to do a SAFE pass. That means waiting for a safe spot (but since this is basically an issue where the trails are not crowded, that just means avoiding blind spots) and calling the pass, and doing it with enough room. Its generally pretty easy for a bicycle of standard width to pass another bicycle of standard width on all the trails around here.

    I hope that helps.

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