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Thread: Cyclist nearly takes out a kid while running a red light

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoWheelsDC View Post
    Yep. Basically, a crosswalk exists in Virginia at every intersection of streets or sidewalk and street, whether there is paint or not.
    I believe only if there is a sidewalk. If there is no sidewalk on a given side, there is no implied crosswalk.

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    There is no proper red light running. There may be a scale of badness that ranks running reds during normal peak travel periods without looking as worst, but there is no justification for taking it upon oneself to decide which traffic control devices may be ignored (I acknowledge that Virginia law does have a limited right to proceed through a signalized intersection after having waited a set amount of time).

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post

    But no, one person is not responsible for the stereotypes or generalizations of a another person.

    Isn't that how stereotypes work? You made wide judgments of others that are in a group that you're not in based on limited observations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crickey7 View Post
    There is no proper red light running. There may be a scale of badness that ranks running reds during normal peak travel periods without looking as worst, but there is no justification for taking it upon oneself to decide which traffic control devices may be ignored (I acknowledge that Virginia law does have a limited right to proceed through a signalized intersection after having waited a set amount of time).
    This morning. Maine Avenue. Three way intersection, so absolutely zero cross traffic except for construction equipment, which are usually stopped, and easy to observe. No chance of collision with traffic turning left onto Maine from 9th if you are staying to the right. And a good way to get out in front of traffic proceeding SE on Maine, in order to make a safer lane change to the left for the vehicular left onto 7th. There are many many times when it is totally safer to Idaho the red there, and its one of the few places in the region I do it, and it is NOT for the sake of momentum. I believe there are other places where the situation is similar. (Note there are quite a few places where properly Idahoing a red is probably safer, again to get out visibly in front of traffic, but I forego Idahoing, both for the sake of optics, and because I don't feel I know the location well enough, nor do I Idaho reds enough, to feel confident in the judgement call) Note also, on the Eye Street SE-SW bike lanes, there are quite a few places where Idahoing reds would be very good for momentum, and there is rarely cross traffic, but I never Idaho, because there is no real safety benefit that I can see.

    Note also, at Eye and 4th SW, there is a leading pedestrian interval, and at that location I do proceed through when the light is red but the ped interval is white, as it is perfectly legal for cyclists to do that there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd View Post
    Isn't that how stereotypes work? You made wide judgments of others that are in a group that you're not in based on limited observations?
    Yes, but the stereotyper is responsible for doing that. Not the stereotypee

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    I believe only if there is a sidewalk. If there is no sidewalk on a given side, there is no implied crosswalk.
    Actually, what matters is the speed of the road to be crossed (I believe 35& under means crosswalk, 40+ only when paint) and whether there's a sign saying not to cross. I couldn't see well enough in the video, and didn't know where this was, to know whether there was an "implied" crosswalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Yes, but the stereotyper is responsible for doing that. Not the stereotypee

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    This reminds me so much of debates I've heard in shul. My rabbi emeritus "we are not immigrants any more, we should not be less assertive than anyone else" My child of holocaust survivors wife, "nah, I'm not sure, we need to watch what the gentiles think" (I suspect african americans, gays, etc, have similar discussions) (note also, I have immense sympathy for Muslim Americans whom I imagine pray hard "let it not be a muslim" when they hear of a violent incident, just as I pray particularly hard that it not be a Jew especially for a financial crime)

    Its a difficult choice, between realistically acknowledging that small, different, sometimes disliked minorities are stereotyped and judged (unfairly) as groups, and that thus, as a pragmatic matter, the bad or illegal acts of one set back all. OTOH there is also the danger of internalizing the bigotry, and being too inassertive, and legitimizing the stereotyping.

    I think there is an intermediate solution. One is to push back against stereotyping in one's advocacy (and all stereotyping, not just the kind one is a victim of) and to be assertive in pushing for legitimate benefits. While at the same time paying some attention to the optics of one's own behavior, and reminding others of the pragmatic impact of their behavior.
    Last edited by lordofthemark; 04-26-2017 at 10:38 AM.

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    I'm getting a bit of cognitive dissonance between the "we're not responsible for stereotyping" and the "it's okay to break laws we've decided are unnecessary." Simply put, I'm calling BS here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasgeh View Post
    Actually, what matters is the speed of the road to be crossed (I believe 35& under means crosswalk, 40+ only when paint) and whether there's a sign saying not to cross. I couldn't see well enough in the video, and didn't know where this was, to know whether there was an "implied" crosswalk

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    Seems that if there's a sidewalk, there's always an implied crosswalk regardless of speed limit...unless I'm misreading part B below (which is totally possible, as it's confusing). If there's no sidewalk, there is still an implied crosswalk at every intersection, provided the speed limit is 35mph or below.

    46.2-924
    Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty

    A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

    1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

    2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

    3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crickey7 View Post
    I'm getting a bit of cognitive dissonance between the "we're not responsible for stereotyping" and the "it's okay to break laws we've decided are unnecessary." Simply put, I'm calling BS here.

    If the stereotype was that cyclists only run reds when there are zero pedestrians present, and after stopping and checking for cross traffic, we would be way way ahead. The stereotype that we do technically violations of law is, IMO, a trivial problem in bike advocacy, because after all 90% of drivers drive at least 1MPH over the speed limit, 90% of pedestrians cross mid block at least occasionally (I live across the street from a bus stop, you have to go about 30 feet out of your way to use the crosswalk, visibility is good, traffic is not too fast - and in three years I don't think I have seen one person walk to the crosswalk to cross). And the people we need to convince are people who do drive over the limit, who do sometimes jaywalk, not the tiny handful of people who never do technical infringements of the law (nor the folks of bad faith who focus only on technical violations by cyclists while ignoring other modes).

    What sets us back IMO is the behavior that is not only illegal, but genuinely reckless. Certainly the (thankfully very rare) bike ped fatalities are hugely bad for us in terms of advocacy.

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