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Thread: Cyclist nearly takes out a kid while running a red light

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWL View Post
    It is good to keep in mind accusations of jaywalking was a way for motorists to delegitimize pedestrians. http://99percentinvisible.org/episod...modern-moloch/
    Exactly. As continues today, with motorists trying to delegitimize cyclists wanting to use the streets. No question, the idiot behavior of the guy blowing a red light endangers lives. But kowtowing to unreasonable standards of perfect law-abiding behavior (when the laws were written for motorists, and when drivers aren't held equally accountable) won't move us forward. It's a long and stubborn history to have to turn back, if we truly want our streets to be a multi-use environment. We have to keep advocating for our own rights and safety, to undo the revolution that created this car-centric culture in the first place.

    "Before the advent of the automobile, users of city streets were diverse and included children at play and pedestrians at large. By 1930, most streets were primarily a motor thoroughfares where children did not belong and where pedestrians were condemned as "jaywalkers." In Fighting Traffic, Peter Norton argues that to accommodate automobiles, the American city required not only a physical change but also a social one: before the city could be reconstructed for the sake of motorists, its streets had to be socially reconstructed as places where motorists belonged. It was not an evolution, he writes, but a bloody and sometimes violent revolution." (The book, referenced in KWL's article above, is a great but exasperating read.)

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    This reminds me so much of debates I've heard in shul. My rabbi emeritus "we are not immigrants any more, we should not be less assertive than anyone else" My child of holocaust survivors wife, "nah, I'm not sure, we need to watch what the gentiles think" (I suspect african americans, gays, etc, have similar discussions) (note also, I have immense sympathy for Muslim Americans whom I imagine pray hard "let it not be a muslim" when they hear of a violent incident, just as I pray particularly hard that it not be a Jew especially for a financial crime)

    Its a difficult choice, between realistically acknowledging that small, different, sometimes disliked minorities are stereotyped and judged (unfairly) as groups, and that thus, as a pragmatic matter, the bad or illegal acts of one set back all. OTOH there is also the danger of internalizing the bigotry, and being too inassertive, and legitimizing the stereotyping.
    Rest assured that everyone is stereotyped, not just minorities. Christian (or christian-background) white males get it too. They just don't have as much to lose.

    I think there is an intermediate solution. One is to push back against stereotyping in one's advocacy (and all stereotyping, not just the kind one is a victim of) and to be assertive in pushing for legitimate benefits. While at the same time paying some attention to the optics of one's own behavior, and reminding others of the pragmatic impact of their behavior.
    I personally think the first is more important in the long run.

  4. #43
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    G_d gave us brakes for a reason.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by baiskeli View Post
    Rest assured that everyone is stereotyped, not just minorities. Christian (or christian-background) white males get it too. They just don't have as much to lose.

    I for one am so tired of the stereotype that just because I'm a 6'3" white male that I should be paid lots of money and be selected to run things.

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  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd View Post
    I for one am so tired of the stereotype that just because I'm a 6'3" white male that I should be paid lots of money and be selected to run things.
    And what's with everyone assuming because I am a white, middle aged male with a beard, that I'm likely a cyclist?

  8. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd View Post
    And what's with everyone assuming because I am a white, middle aged male with a beard, that I'm likely a cyclist?
    Wait what?

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  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthemark View Post
    Wait what?
    I'm 37 and not expecting to live to 74, therefore I am middle aged.

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  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd View Post
    I'm 37 and not expecting to live to 74, therefore I am middle aged.
    Are you implying I'm old?

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    Quote Originally Posted by consularrider View Post
    Are you implying I'm old?
    I'm happy to be friends with so many active seniors.

  14. #50
    mstone is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consularrider View Post
    Are you implying I'm old?
    I don't think there was anything implied

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