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Thread: Going from a triple to a double - what don't I know?

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    1x does not mean less range! (An 11-42 cassette with a 50t ring is more range than a 34/50 rings with 11-28 cassette.). It does mean bigger steps between some of the cogs, but when you consider that there are only ~14 usable gears in a typical double setup, doing 1x11 only misses a few cog sizes. In practice, I notice that it goes from 13 to 15 (missing 14), but it isn't a problem.

    For my commuter an 11-36 cassette with a 46t ring is a little more range than 11-28 cassette with 36/46 cx rings.

    And 100rpm with a 46x11 is 33mph, so that gearing is still fast enough for the HP hot laps, though maybe not quits for the sprint point.
    Last edited by hozn; 02-11-2017 at 10:28 PM.

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    For double rings, 36/52 is great alternative to a standard, but honestly a 50t is pretty fast. Pedaling at 100rpm in 50x11 is 36mph, 110rpm is 39mph. I can't think of a single race scenario where I needed to be *pedaling* at over 40mph. There are definitely people who can use that gearing, maybe sprinters who want to turn over a taller gear at lower cadences? Anyway, I used a 36/52 for the last year, but I like a 50t ring better, so my road bike now has a 50t.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hozn View Post
    1x does not mean less range! [...] It does mean bigger steps between some of the cogs, but when you consider that there are only ~14 usable gears in a typical double setup, doing 1x11 only misses a few cog sizes. In practice, I notice that it goes from 13 to 15 (missing 14), but it isn't a problem.
    My 1x8 IGH doesn't boast a big range, but it does cover commuting and errands nicely, including grocery runs. There are only a couple of short segments on my 7-mile commute where I feel a "gap" in the range, but that's easily mitigated by either patience or enthusiasm.

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    I agree with Hozn, go 1x10, for the novelty and weight savings. A 52/36 will replicate the gearing you have now, except it will eliminate your hill climbing gears. A 50/39 and a 52/36 have almost the same gear range, with a 11-28 cassette, which is what I'm guessing you have.

    from Sheldon's gear calculator:

    52/36: 127 gear inches, 35 gear inches
    50/39: 123 gear inches, 38 gear inches
    50/39/30: 123 gear inches, 30 gear inches.

    Hozn, could jrenaut get a cheap taste of 1x10 by just removing the big and small rings on the current crankset, and front der, and replace the middle ring with a 38t or 40t WolfTooth? Prob couldn't go bigger that that without hitting the chainstay, but that'd still be a 100" high gear and 40" low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyRider View Post
    Hozn, could jrenaut get a cheap taste of 1x10 by just removing the big and small rings on the current crankset, and front der, and replace the middle ring with a 38t or 40t WolfTooth? Prob couldn't go bigger that that without hitting the chainstay, but that'd still be a 100" high gear and 40" low.
    When I set up 1x on my mountain bikes, a narrow wide chainring like the Wolftooth was important to keeping the chain on, but almost as important was a "clutch" style rear derailleur that resists chain slackening. This is important in mountain biking where your bike/drivetrain/chain is bouncing around a lot. I believe most, if not all, decent to higher end mountain bike rear derailleurs are "clutch" now.

    I know diddly about road components, but are they as prominent there as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyRider View Post
    Hozn, could jrenaut get a cheap taste of 1x10 by just removing the big and small rings on the current crankset, and front der, and replace the middle ring with a 38t or 40t WolfTooth? Prob couldn't go bigger that that without hitting the chainstay, but that'd still be a 100" high gear and 40" low.
    Yeah, that should work fine. I think the clutch derailleurs add some confidence (no chain drops), but will work with normal -- just not so much range, as you point out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyRider View Post
    I agree with Hozn, go 1x10, for the novelty and weight savings.
    Haha weight savings. I could save more weight by removing the rack and fenders.

    So I was looking at a gear inch calculator. I'm currently 50/39/30 and 10 speed 12-30. The gear inches in gears I actually use on a regular basis range from 43 to 103. If I switched to 48 and 11-42, that would be 30 to 116. I'd never really thought about that.

    This brings up two questions - in 1X10, can I use all 10 without issue? I guess there's no front derailleur to scrape so probably? And it's likely the 11-42 would fit on my wheel? This is intriguing. It's cheaper, too, because I don't need a new brifter or a new derailleur.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrenaut View Post
    Haha weight savings. I could save more weight by removing the rack and fenders.

    So I was looking at a gear inch calculator. I'm currently 50/39/30 and 10 speed 12-30. The gear inches in gears I actually use on a regular basis range from 43 to 103. If I switched to 48 and 11-42, that would be 30 to 116. I'd never really thought about that.

    This brings up two questions - in 1X10, can I use all 10 without issue? I guess there's no front derailleur to scrape so probably? And it's likely the 11-42 would fit on my wheel? This is intriguing. It's cheaper, too, because I don't need a new brifter or a new derailleur.
    Yeah, don't put too much hope in weight savings. It might be lighter, but the n/w rings are heavier and the rear derailleurs are quite a bit heavier. Mine did happen to weigh a little less (less than 200g IIRC), but I was also switching to hydro and so there were lots of things changing.

    But, yes, if you go 1x10 you can use the entire range. I use the entire 11sp range on my 11-40 cassette with a 50t ring. The big-big combo probably isn't the best chain line (on my short-chainstay road bike), but it works fine. If your wheel is 10sp compatible (assuming standard Sram/Shimano 10sp freehub body), you can use one of the 11-40/11-42 10-speed cassettes out there (e.g. Sunrace makes a few options as does Praxis, I believe. Probably there are some Shimano options too). I currently am setup with 11-36t cassette with a 44t ring on my commuter. 11-36t is easier / cheaper than 11-40/42, but I might switch to 11-40 when I finish this cassette.

    So go "all in" for 1x, you will want a clutch derailleur that will clear the largest cog you expect out back. You'll want a new cassette, and you'll want a narrow-wide chain ring. Everything else can stay the same.

    So, my experience has been doing this with SRAM; if you're using Shimano you might need to give a little more consideration to part compatibility. SRAM 10sp is really easy because road and mountain bike parts are interchangeable (and also SRAM has lots of 1x support in their road groups too). Also SRAM 11sp and 10sp rear derailleurs are interchangeable, which further makes it easy to later upgrade to 11sp shifters & cassette.

    Finally, bear in mind that if you want to mix and match Shimano road/mtb or Shiman w/ SRAM, there are cable pull adapters available to make this possible: http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate/

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  12. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    When I set up 1x on my mountain bikes, a narrow wide chainring like the Wolftooth was important to keeping the chain on, but almost as important was a "clutch" style rear derailleur that resists chain slackening. This is important in mountain biking where your bike/drivetrain/chain is bouncing around a lot. I believe most, if not all, decent to higher end mountain bike rear derailleurs are "clutch" now.

    I know diddly about road components, but are they as prominent there as well?
    Yeah, SRAM has clutch derailleurs for road (their "1" line -- i.e. Apex 1, Rival 1, Force 1). I have a MTB rear derailleur on my commuter (X9); the only downside to that is that there's no cable barrel adjuster on the RD (I guess for MTB they assume you have that on your lever), so I have an inline adjuster. SRAM's road clutch RDs do have barrel adjusters, so that is one reason to favor road. SRAMs 11sp road or 10sp MTB both work for 10 or 11sp road shifters. (But to add some confusion, SRAM's 11sp MTB stuff will *not* work.)

    I have dropped my chain a couple times even with the clutch RD. I think both times was actually on the road -- once was a speed bump and I think the other was just a perfectly shaped pothole). But never in the woods, where I used to drop my chain with some regularity when using a double + FD. So definitely the clutch + RD is very secure, but it still might happen.

    The thing I probably like best about SRAM clutch RDs is their ability to lock open, making taking off and replacing the rear wheel a lot easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrenaut View Post
    If I switched to 48 and 11-42, that would be 30 to 116.
    I think a 48 tooth single speed chainring would hit your chainstay, if you tried to mount it to your current crank's middle position. You could put it on the outside, but I think cross chaining would be pretty bad in the low gears.
    There's another option, popular with the Bicycle Quarterly crowd, a 46/30. But cranksets for that combo are uncommon and pricey. Sugino OX, White Industries, Compass, etc.
    FWIW, my bike is very similar to your Volpe, same geo, 32mm tires. I've tried many things on it but have settled on a 46/36/26. I'm not as strong as you, but everyone can use a triple on a windy day like today.

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