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Thread: SUV on the W&OD

  1. #21
    mstone is offline I really need to log off the internet and go for a ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariner View Post
    The side roads coming in to the trail ... are there bollards at those entry points? Could the person have easily turned off? I wonder if that's how they got on, accidentally or if they were just looking for a quicker commute.
    Numerous people have suggested more visible markings or a redesign to split the path into two lanes with a highly visible median numerous times, but the masters of the WOD seem to believe the only answers are either tiny signs or (breakable/effectively temporary) bollards.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    Numerous people have suggested more visible markings or a redesign to split the path into two lanes with a highly visible median numerous times, but the masters of the WOD seem to believe the only answers are either tiny signs or (breakable/effectively temporary) bollards.
    I think the main reason that the NVRPA does not incorporate this kind of design is that it would make it more difficult for their maintenance vehicles to access the trail. So, we are left with the current situation where vehicular access to the trail is discouraged (paint and signage) but not blocked (physical barriers like gates/bollards/etc.).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobco85 View Post
    I think the main reason that the NVRPA does not incorporate this kind of design is that it would make it more difficult for their maintenance vehicles to access the trail. So, we are left with the current situation where vehicular access to the trail is discouraged (paint and signage) but not blocked (physical barriers like gates/bollards/etc.).
    Other jurisdictions manage to implement designs with safe physical barriers and still manage to access their trails. I think the real reason is that they don't think it's important. (Side note: how much of nvrpa's routine maintenance and monitoring could be accomplished with evokes and trailers rather than pickup trucks, killing several birds--including this one--with one stone.)

    All that aside, and regardless of why they refuse to innovate on the design side, they could be a lot more aggressive with the paint. E.g., make the whole trail green at the intersections rather than adding small yellow words.

  4. #24
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    Or just paint it like this. That should do it:
    Name:  30-impressive-3d-sidewalk-chalk.jpg
Views: 183
Size:  96.0 KB

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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    Or just paint it like this. That should do it:
    Name:  30-impressive-3d-sidewalk-chalk.jpg
Views: 183
Size:  96.0 KB
    Another excellent suggestion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    Or just paint it like this. That should do it:
    Name:  30-impressive-3d-sidewalk-chalk.jpg
Views: 183
Size:  96.0 KB

    Looks like one of Consular Rider's pictures of the roads in Kyiv.

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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstone View Post
    Other jurisdictions manage to implement designs with safe physical barriers and still manage to access their trails. I think the real reason is that they don't think it's important. (Side note: how much of nvrpa's routine maintenance and monitoring could be accomplished with evokes and trailers rather than pickup trucks, killing several birds--including this one--with one stone.)

    All that aside, and regardless of why they refuse to innovate on the design side, they could be a lot more aggressive with the paint. E.g., make the whole trail green at the intersections rather than adding small yellow words.
    The only way to stop cars is to install hard barriers. That would likely cause more unwanted outcomes than the odd cars on the trail does and we don't want that.
    Please do not paint the asphalt. Paints make asphalt more slippery and that is just what you don't need at an intersection. Even paints with added grit produce a sealing layer that keeps water and dirt from passing through as well thus reduce traction over time. Paint is a maintenance item. Cars on the W&OD is not all that common and when there is one it is most often due to a impaired or confused driver. Paint is less good for bikes and not likely to stop the drunk or the guy that Darwin missed on brains day.

    IMO. Good DOT grade format and size signs at problem road crossings. Not the cute soft fuzzy light brown park like signs we often see. The kind of sign a car driver is used to seeing. Big red circle with the "NO!" line and a car in it. Low maintenance, no impact on the trail surface or to users.

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  11. #28
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    That section of the WOD is my usual commute. I take the Branch Ave. path over to Echols and into Tysons. Based on the video, the car comes onto the trail on the Branch connector. Going through there this morning I noticed how nice and wide it is, it looks like a driveway! Other paths off the WOD are much narrower. Perhaps there is some golden width for these paths that could be used?

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicegrip View Post
    The only way to stop cars is to install hard barriers. That would likely cause more unwanted outcomes than the odd cars on the trail does and we don't want that.
    There are ways to do this which are a heck of a lot safer than a bollard, for example by splitting the two sides of the trail into widths which are uncomfortable for a car but fine for bikes and even trailers. Done right, the split happens gradually and visibly so you don't just hit an obstruction in the middle of the trail. We're probably not at the point where we need something that actually prevents a determined driver from circumventing the feature, as the incursions typically seem to involve lack of clue rather than malice.

    Please do not paint the asphalt.
    In this case "paint" should be shorthand for "colored asphalt". That should have significantly better traction than the current (existing) solutions involving slippery letters and lines. (Or flexpost collards.) Given the area we're talking about that shouldn't be cost prohibitive. Yes it will require maintenance over time, but NVRPA actually has a budget for that unlike NPS.

    Cars on the W&OD is not all that common and when there is one it is most often due to a impaired or confused driver.
    There are a couple of stretches where there are frequent enough incursions to suggest that the intersections are sufficiently confusing to require improved treatments. I certainly wouldn't expect them at every intersection along the trail. What I would expect (and what disappoints me about the lackluster response from NVRPA) is followup to find out exactly where people are entering the trail, so there's better data on which intersections need improvement.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O View Post
    Or just paint it like this. That should do it:
    Name:  30-impressive-3d-sidewalk-chalk.jpg
Views: 183
Size:  96.0 KB
    Or maybe one of the those fake train tunnels that the Road Runner can go through but not Wile E. Coyote.

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