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jwetzel
01-21-2016, 11:43 AM
I'm traveling north to New Hampshire this weekend for training. The hotel said they don't have real bikes, but that it's likely no one would say anything if I dragged one of their stationary bikes outside at midnight Sat-Sun if I put it back when I was done.

I'm in training from before until after the bike shops in town open-close so a rental isn't an option. Am wondering if this is a valid option, or if I'm going to have to pay to check my folding bike through, when I really don't want to have a checked back trying to fly back to DC on Sunday night.

Thoughts on this?

Henry
01-21-2016, 11:51 AM
Would that be a 0-mile sleaze ride for 10 points, simply b/c it's outside? I'm thinking not, but I'm not the czar.

cvcalhoun
01-21-2016, 11:55 AM
Unfortunately, a stationary bike doesn't count, even if its saddle is freezing.

DismalScientist
01-21-2016, 12:46 PM
Would that be a 0-mile sleaze ride for 10 points, simply b/c it's outside? I'm thinking not, but I'm not the czar.
Actually, it will be a 0 mile ride for zero points, which is fine with me.

sethpo
01-21-2016, 01:01 PM
You should relax and enjoy the time off!!


(you're not on my team, right?)

pdubs
01-21-2016, 03:45 PM
10551

Pack one of these. Run a mile outside while carrying it at your hip (using 2 hands) or on your shoulder (1 hand) and name your strava segment "cx practice." Then I think you'll be good.

TwoWheelsDC
01-21-2016, 04:06 PM
I dunno...if you're willing to haul a stationary bike outside in the middle of the night in New Hampshire, I have no problem with you getting 11 points for your troubles.

Vicegrip
01-21-2016, 05:54 PM
I dunno...if you're willing to haul a stationary bike outside in the middle of the night in New Hampshire, I have no problem with you getting 11 points for your troubles.No kidding. Take pix of the ride and the people around and you can have 11 of my points. :D

Do it. Spirit of FS to a T and 100% not to the rules. So wrong it is right.

hozn
01-21-2016, 06:19 PM
I say if you can ride a regular bike in the parking garage (and it counts) then riding a stationary bike in sub-freezing temps sounds like it should count. Heck, doesn't sound much different than riding an e-bike for a sleaze ride.

TwoWheelsDC
01-21-2016, 06:22 PM
A potential rule amendment could be: Outdoor stationary bike rides are allowed, but only count for 11 points regardless of duration. I think it would have to be totally honor system though, although that's not really any different than manual Strava entries.

cvcalhoun
01-21-2016, 07:05 PM
I say if you can ride a regular bike in the parking garage (and it counts) then riding a stationary bike in sub-freezing temps sounds like it should count. Heck, doesn't sound much different than riding an e-bike for a sleaze ride.

Just a reminder that the existing rules say, "Trainer rides don’t count. Mark your rides as such or include #NOBAFS in the title to exclude them. Take your bike outside and ride it some distance across the surface of the earth in order to earn points." So we are talking about a rule change if we are to allow this.

dkel
01-21-2016, 07:27 PM
Take pix of the ride and the people around and you can have 11 of my points. :D

No, you can't! No giving away our team's points, Vicegrip!

hozn
01-21-2016, 09:34 PM
Just a reminder that the existing rules say, "Trainer rides don’t count. Mark your rides as such or include #NOBAFS in the title to exclude them. Take your bike outside and ride it some distance across the surface of the earth in order to earn points." So we are talking about a rule change if we are to allow this.
Yeah, I wasn't really being serious. Sorry that wasn't obvious in my post. There are definitely some gray areas here -- e-bikes (ELF!), riding indoors (but not stationary), riding in tropical parts of world. The spirit of Freezing Saddles isn't always aligned with the rules if the game.

vern
01-21-2016, 09:46 PM
We should ban riding indoors for next year's game. As Hozn says, riding indoors is against the spirit and intent of the game.

hozn
01-21-2016, 09:59 PM
We should ban riding indoors for next year's game. As Hozn says, riding indoors is against the spirit and intent of the game.
That seems reasonable. To be fair, I don't know that this has actually been done, but I know that - for example - there were the Crystal City parking garage races end of last winter. I don't think there is anything in the rules that would prevent that from counting.

But then do you also ban people riding while on holiday in Australia (vvill!)?

cvcalhoun
01-21-2016, 10:00 PM
Yeah, I wasn't really being serious. Sorry that wasn't obvious in my post. There are definitely some gray areas here -- e-bikes (ELF!), riding indoors (but not stationary), riding in tropical parts of world. The spirit of Freezing Saddles isn't always aligned with the rules if the game.
Well, the e-bikes and ELF did get taken care of. LOL

Amalitza
01-22-2016, 08:09 AM
I believe that "trainer, but outside" and "round and round a covered-but-unheated parking garage" actually have been idly debated in the past, but I don't know that anyone has ever in seriousness proposed doing either of them (therefore, I don't know if anyone has ever decided that they do or don't count). As much as I really really really want to see pictures (or preferably video!!!) of jwetzel dragging a hotel stationary bike outside at night to ride it (preferably with witnesses!!!), we would then probably need to let everyone else take our trainers outside for a quick "mile" in tomorrow's blizzard. I think the people who actually manage to ride somewhere tomorrow might, possibly have a wee bit of a problem with that. :) Although doing that would certainly increase the likelihood of our neighbors calling the authorities to have us committed, which does seem to be in the proper spirit of the game... :cool:

I'm all for letting Vicegrip donate some of his points towards encouraging stupid human tricks. Also, Subby, Rod Smith, ewilliams, everybody on Team 8-Ballin' or ::checks leaderboard:: any of the Cyclo-Paths ;)

Dickie
01-22-2016, 08:36 AM
I agree with hozn. Dragging a stationary bike outside while on vacation in the middle of the night in the cold is more in line with the spirit of this game that many of the rides counted each year. Lets be honest, try as we like to make this a "serious" event, shouldn't we allow exceptions that celebrate the true intent of this game… to have fun cycling in the winter? I suspect those folks who are insane enough to ride tomorrow are exactly the folks that would applaud jwetzel's efforts. Please donate 11 of my points, hell give him all my points for all I care…. I'd rather BAFS stay true to the spirit of the game.

Terpfan
01-22-2016, 08:36 AM
Oh riding in a parking garage... the thought had never occurred to me. If I could make it down to Huntington Station, I could easily log sleaze miles during storm. If only it were closer. I'll still do some fun laps on hybrid once plow comes through. Maybe even tree with snow for ___ and giggles.

rcannon100
01-22-2016, 08:52 AM
We should ban riding indoors for next year's game. As Hozn says, riding indoors is against the spirit and intent of the game.

Riding indoors has been asked and answered. The decision, first year, is that unless you are outside "Freezing" the miles they don't count.

As for a stationary bike.... It doesn't move.... You have to MOVE to have miles.

The whole point to this game is that it is a cycling commuting outdoors suffering in the elements game. If you are not outdoors suffering in the elements, going somewhere, then the miles they don't count.

BTW The reason for having captains originally was not to have team cheerleaders, it was, once the game began, to clarify any kerfluffles. If we are having moments of lack of clarify, then, as originally designed, it should go to the Captains and they should attempt to reach consensus.

Dickie
01-22-2016, 09:25 AM
BTW The reason for having captains originally was not to have team cheerleaders, it was, once the game began, to clarify any kerfluffles. If we are having moments of lack of clarify, then, as originally designed, it should go to the Captains and they should attempt to reach consensus.

Agreed, but perhaps allowing captains who; don't participate in the forum, log onto Stava only once a week, or have never participated in BAFS before, sort of defeats the intent

cvcalhoun
01-22-2016, 09:56 AM
The question now is, just how much of the ride can involve Fred Flintstoning before it doesn't count as a ride.

Harry Meatmotor
01-22-2016, 10:12 AM
...for example - there were the Crystal City parking garage races end of last winter. I don't think there is anything in the rules that would prevent that from counting...

Yeah, but it was freaking freezing down there for all of 'em... so still in the spirit!

Steve O
01-22-2016, 10:13 AM
As for a stationary bike.... It doesn't move.... You have to MOVE to have miles.

Do it like the ending of The Triplets of Belleville and we will grant you the points.

Steve O
01-22-2016, 10:15 AM
Yeah, but it was freaking freezing down there for all of 'em... so still in the spirit!

No, it wasn't all that cold, actually, especially if you had a cup of coffee while you rode.
http://www.brucebuckleyphotography.com/Sports/Cycling/Crystal-City-WNS-3-25-15/i-Dr4Vwmd/0/M/1E9A5900-M.jpg

vvill
01-22-2016, 10:42 AM
I agree in principle that things in the spirit of FS should be allowed, but without rules it becomes too difficult to keep track of it all. If you're not actually moving on wheels outside (and dealing with the dynamics of winds, balance, terrain, etc.) then you can't get points. That's a simple rule. Rent a bike, borrow a bike, bring a folding bike and ride those. Or hike-a-bike/cyclocross-carry your sleaze ride.

I could go either way on the indoor garage one for this winter, but I think in future it should be only rides that are GPS trackable (and moving obviously - this is in addition to no stationary bikes). Manual entries would still be allowed (in the event of Strava burps) but if you are far away enough from the surface that you can't get a GPS track then you're not really riding outside.

As for miles in more temperate places during FS - admittedly a loophole. I think if you want be able to ride every day of the FS calendar though, and also have veterans who've moved away participating we can't change this one. Unless someone shows up high in a leaderboard with the majority of rides/miles in a warm area, I think it's fine.

dasgeh
01-22-2016, 11:08 AM
There could totally be a pointless prize for the silliest use of a trainer. Just saying.

dkel
01-22-2016, 12:05 PM
How about a pointless prize for the silliest argument about rules?

Amalitza
01-22-2016, 01:39 PM
How about a pointless prize for the silliest argument about rules?

Too much competition.

Amalitza
01-22-2016, 02:04 PM
Lets be honest, try as we like to make this a "serious" event, shouldn't we allow exceptions that celebrate the true intent of this game… to have fun cycling in the winter?

I hope we are not trying to make this a serious event!

shardg
01-22-2016, 08:26 PM
Two suggestions I considered for travel. Check local Craigslist for bikes for sale, if one in your location offer to rent for a day or two. If someone is selling a 300 bike they may bring it to your hotel for $50 or so. Other option ask the staff who has a bike you could ride for a mile for $20

Kitty
01-23-2016, 01:02 PM
Just a reminder that the existing rules say, "Trainer rides don’t count. Mark your rides as such or include #NOBAFS in the title to exclude them. Take your bike outside and ride it some distance across the surface of the earth in order to earn points." So we are talking about a rule change if we are to allow this.


We should ban riding indoors for next year's game. As Hozn says, riding indoors is against the spirit and intent of the game.


Oh riding in a parking garage... the thought had never occurred to me. If I could make it down to Huntington Station, I could easily log sleaze miles during storm. If only it were closer. I'll still do some fun laps on hybrid once plow comes through. Maybe even tree with snow for ___ and giggles.

Riding in a garage IS A THING?! Is that something people seriously do? Or is this a joke? I thought we had to ride outside to get distance and points...

kwarkentien
01-23-2016, 01:06 PM
Riding in a garage IS A THING?! Is that something people seriously do? Or is this a joke? I thought we had to ride outside to get distance and points...

It is a thing, but FS requires you to be outside so this doesn't count. But you should be sure to watch the races. I think the series starts again in March in Crystal City.

hozn
01-23-2016, 05:58 PM
I didn't realize there was a rule that said miles had to be outside. But I agree that makes sense. I guess outdoor parking garages would be fine. :-)

Steve O
01-23-2016, 06:12 PM
It is a thing, but FS requires you to be outside so this doesn't count. But you should be sure to watch the races. I think the series starts again in March in Crystal City.


+1
Totally fun. I checked, and I did not count my miles that I rode inside the garage, just the trips to and from the event.

Kitty
01-24-2016, 07:40 PM
It is a thing, but FS requires you to be outside so this doesn't count. But you should be sure to watch the races. I think the series starts again in March in Crystal City.

Ah good good good. I'm all for the fun of the races (I believe I will go check them out this year), but I'm glad that garages don't count for FS. Not only does it seem like cheating, knowing how people whip through our garage, you might be safer outside...

jwetzel
01-27-2016, 08:43 AM
I'm sorry I left and didn't check this! Oh well, I set out to find a bike and found one to borrow - from a coworker that wasn't at the training but lives near the office who happens to have a neighbour afflicted with n+1. So it worked out in the end, and I didn't drag a stationary outside.

Terpfan
01-27-2016, 10:16 AM
Riding in a garage IS A THING?! Is that something people seriously do? Or is this a joke? I thought we had to ride outside to get distance and points...

I didn't even think for indoor garages. I was thinking of Huntington, which is entirely exposed to cold, but has the covered roof. I didn't end up doing it though since getting my bike out proved to be the bigger hassle. I should not have left it in the shed by my deck because then it requires that much more snow shoveling.

JonRobot
01-27-2016, 10:34 AM
i've also considered using a outdoor garage nearby as a way to get elevation practice in the winter (i am terrible at going uphill). it's an above ground, garage, so it's exposed, but with minimal traffic and hopefully not so much ice all round.