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View Full Version : Freezing Saddles end date?



cvcalhoun
03-05-2014, 10:56 PM
The original rules said that the Freezing Saddles competition runs through to "the end of winter." In 2014, spring begins with the vernal equinox on March 20 at 12:57 P.M. EDT. So does the competition end 12:00 A.M. EDT on March 20, 12:00 A.M. EDT on March 21, or 12:57 P.M. EDT on March 20?

Yes, I am a lawyer. Why do you ask?

Edit: Actually, I found the answer; the post was just old enough to be buried. "The saga runs January 1 until the last day of Winter, March 19 (http://bikearlingtonforum.com/showthread.php?6317-Freezing-Saddles-2014-Rules)."

PotomacCyclist
03-06-2014, 02:13 AM
You also have to determine how to define winter. Meteorological winter ended on Feb. 28.

(I'm not participating in Freezing Saddles, so the exact deadline doesn't concern me too much. I'm mostly concerned about not having any more snowstorms or polar vortexes/vortices!)

Amalitza
03-06-2014, 05:24 AM
winter ended on Feb 28


Game over! We win!:D

French team maybe should have started their come from behind attempt a little sooner.:cool:

ShawnoftheDread
03-06-2014, 05:59 AM
The original rules said that the Freezing Saddles competition runs through to "the end of winter." In 2014, spring begins with the vernal equinox on March 20 at 12:57 P.M. EDT. So does the competition end 12:00 A.M. EDT on March 20, 12:00 A.M. EDT on March 21, or 12:57 P.M. EDT on March 20?

Yes, I am a lawyer. Why do you ask?

In your lawyerly exactitude, you should know that at exactly 12:00 it is neither a.m. nor p.m., but merely m. Proper designation should be either 12:00 midnight or 12:00:01 a.m.

Yes, I am a pedant. Why do you ask?

mstone
03-06-2014, 07:54 AM
In your lawyerly exactitude, you should know that at exactly 12:00 it is neither a.m. nor p.m., but merely m. Proper designation should be either 12:00 midnight or 12:00:01 a.m.

Yes, I am a pedant. Why do you ask?

Note: you have this backward. 12 noon is neither a.m. or p.m., and 12 midnight is 12a.m. (a.m. and p.m. are from the latin for before and after midday, so the concept of noon being before or after itself is illogical.) This is extremely easy to screw up, so many style guides suggest always using "12 midnight" or "12 noon". The correct fix is to use a 24 hour clock starting from 0. :)

Lawyerly note: smart money writes a contract for 11:59pm or 12:01am to just avoid this issue entirely. :D

cyclingfool
03-06-2014, 10:32 AM
The correct fix is to use a 24 hour clock starting from 0. :)

Lawyerly note: smart money writes a contract for 11:59pm or 12:01am to just avoid this issue entirely. :D

Amen, we should use the 24 hour clock for specificity in this country. Big fan, always have been, ever since my parents' first VCR had a 24 hour clock to avoid just this issue when it came to recordings. Watch and computers are set to 24 hour time. And no, I was never in the military. Though I have lived in eastern Europe for a total of about four years in my life and saw the clear advantages of the 24 hour clock. AM and PM are about as ridiculous as gallons/quarts/cup and yard/feet/inches. Oh, wait... forgot. This is 'Murica! ;)

PotomacCyclist
03-06-2014, 12:09 PM
One useful feature of base-12 (inches) and base-4 is that you can divide them easily by common denominators. It's easy to divide 12 by fourths or thirds. Dividing quarts and so on seems simpler than more precise measurements. Cooks don't seem to fuss over the decimal places or exact measurements. (I'm not a gourmet cook, but I have seen one on TV.)

Even more illogical is the calendar system that nearly the entire world uses. It really is odd to have 12 months, with no standard length of those months. But everyone is so used to weekly and monthly cycles that it's too late to change.

One thing that could change is the removal of daylight saving time. DST keeps getting extended, until one day 11.5 months of the year will be DST and only two weeks will be standard time. Right now, DST is about 8 months of the year. Standard time is only 4 months. That seems backward. Plus the time shift leads to drowsy people driving around on the "spring" date, since everyone has to adjust to the sudden hour change. I'd vote to get rid of DST.

jrenaut
03-06-2014, 12:14 PM
Wow, this thread is off-topic even by our usual standards.

kwarkentien
03-06-2014, 12:27 PM
Game over! We win!:D

French team maybe should have started their come from behind attempt a little sooner.:cool:

We Frenchies know that "REAL" winter ends and spring begins at the Vernal Equinox. It is not a "manufactured for television because we aren't smart enough to understand that the equinox is a movable date and time dictated by the alignment of the earth's axis with the center of the sun" date. We are biding our time, slowly but surely, making our climb to the top for utter domination of Freezing Saddles and all of its Dominion. Lentement mais surement!!!! French Team Rules!!!! Bwaaaaahaaaaahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!

4932

:cool:

DismalScientist
03-06-2014, 12:49 PM
Dividing quarts and so on seems simpler than more precise measurements.


:confused::confused::confused:

English units are defined just as precisely as metric units.

Fractions rule!

(BTW, decimals are fractions too.)

americancyclo
03-06-2014, 12:53 PM
Even more illogical is the calendar system

don't even get me started on how we need metric clocks!

PeteD
03-06-2014, 01:29 PM
:confused::confused::confused:

English units are defined just as precisely as metric units.

Fractions rule!

(BTW, decimals are fractions too.)

Especially those English units that have been redefined to be measured in reference to the metric units. 25.4mm, or 91.44cm kinda things.

scorchedearth
03-06-2014, 02:21 PM
We use degrees Freedom to measure temperature; we aren't about to switch to degrees Communism.

cvcalhoun
03-06-2014, 02:26 PM
I'm thinking that the Frenchies' interest in precision comes because they have often been ahead during the day and then fallen behind again at night. They are thus lobbying for the end to be 12:57 P.M., as it is their only hope to win. ;)


We Frenchies know that "REAL" winter ends and spring begins at the Vernal Equinox. It is not a "manufactured for television because we aren't smart enough to understand that the equinox is a movable date and time dictated by the alignment of the earth's axis with the center of the sun" date. We are biding our time, slowly but surely, making our climb to the top for utter domination of Freezing Saddles and all of its Dominion. Lentement mais surement!!!! French Team Rules!!!! Bwaaaaahaaaaahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!

4932

:cool:

Subby
03-06-2014, 03:26 PM
Since the wrap party isn't until a little later (April 3rd, right?), I respectfully submit that Freezing Saddles ends at midnight, March 23rd. That will enable the competition to end on a weekend, which encourages high level crazy shenanigans. Which, as you know, is the very essence of winter riding.

DismalScientist
03-06-2014, 03:29 PM
For those of us without lives, extreme shenanigans can only occur on weekdays.

cvcalhoun
03-06-2014, 03:34 PM
I just edited the initial post, having found the answer: The competition ends on March 19. Of course, nothing stops us from engaging in high level crazy shenanigans after the competition ends. My only hope is that it doesn't result in any more broken clavicles!


Since the wrap party isn't until a little later (April 3rd, right?), I respectfully submit that Freezing Saddles ends at midnight, March 23rd. That will enable the competition to end on a weekend, which encourages high level crazy shenanigans. Which, as you know, is the very essence of winter riding.

cyclingfool
03-07-2014, 11:19 AM
We use degrees Freedom to measure temperature; we aren't about to switch to degrees Communism.

Great. So America's weather conditions are dependent on sample size now? How much more arcane can we get?! ;)

Fast Friendly Guy
03-11-2014, 11:14 AM
As the BAFS First Place Prize Moderator, and after completing my exhaustive research, I agree with cvcalhoun, and it is my intention to decide the winning team by tallying team points for all qualifying rides completed before 12:01 AM March 20, 2014 marking the end of the last full day of winter 2014. Qualifying rides must be uploaded to STRAVA by 12:01 AM March 25, 2014

HOZN, please confirm that the capability to do this is within the system constraints




Seasons of 2014:


SPRING EQUINOX
March 20, 12:57 P.M. EDT


SUMMER SOLSTICE
June 21, 6:51 A.M. EDT


FALL EQUINOX
September 22, 10:29 P.M. EDT


WINTER SOLSTICE
December 21, 6:03 P.M. EST



Source: http://www.almanac.com/content/first-day-seasons

hozn
03-11-2014, 01:15 PM
As the BAFS First Place Prize Moderator, and after completing my exhaustive research, I agree with cvcalhoun, and it is my intention to decide the winning team by tallying team points for all qualifying rides completed before 12:01 AM March 20, 2014marking the end of the last full day of winter 2014. Qualifying rides must be uploaded to STRAVA by 12:01 AM March 25, 2014

HOZN, please confirm that the capability to do this is within the system constraints

If I understand correctly, there should be no problem. I believe (needs to be tested, but errors are easily corrected) that the current design will simply ignore any rides where end time (I will confirm it's not start time) is later than the configured competition end. So this should work fine, allowing people to upload any back entries for a few days (but ignoring any newer rides those riders are doing). After the 24th (so midnight 25th), we'll just turn off the scheduled job. I would suggest that we be somewhat flexible on the "must be uploaded by X time" (but not flexible on the "must be completed by X time"), since my preference would be to just shut down the polling job in the AM rather than wait until midnight to go to bed :)

Fast Friendly Guy
03-11-2014, 05:04 PM
Hans,
The cut off date and time for rides that count towards the tally is important

Qualifying rides completed before 12:01 AM March 20, 2014 count

but the last day to upload should be reasonable and convenient for everyone, including you. Let me know the time that works for you and I will publicize appropriately

hozn
03-11-2014, 06:28 PM
Yup, no problem. I will set that as the end date and double check that the system will work as expected.

Steve O
03-11-2014, 09:30 PM
12:01 AM March 20, 2014

Oh, great. An extra minute for the Bollard Busters to fall even more hopelessly behind.

==========================
Sloppy Seconds - BAFS14: 15,478 points

Lentement mais Sūrement: 14,898 points

Lucky 7 Samurai Sandbags: 13,629 points

Team Bacon - Is Sizzling BAFS14: 12,532 points

Action News Team One "We're Kind of a Big Deal" BAFS14: 10,946 points

Scoundrels and Nerf Herders 2014 FS: 10,232 points

Rusty Studs BAFS14: 10,012 points

Team 4 Bollard Busters BAFS14: 9,666 points

cvcalhoun
03-11-2014, 11:15 PM
Don't forget:

Team Slackers: 9,150 points

You're ahead of someone!


Oh, great. An extra minute for the Bollard Busters to fall even more hopelessly behind.

==========================
Sloppy Seconds - BAFS14: 15,478 points

Lentement mais Sūrement: 14,898 points

Lucky 7 Samurai Sandbags: 13,629 points

Team Bacon - Is Sizzling BAFS14: 12,532 points

Action News Team One "We're Kind of a Big Deal" BAFS14: 10,946 points

Scoundrels and Nerf Herders 2014 FS: 10,232 points

Rusty Studs BAFS14: 10,012 points

Team 4 Bollard Busters BAFS14: 9,666 points

ShawnoftheDread
03-11-2014, 11:31 PM
You skipped someone -- the first place team in elevation gain.

Steve O
03-12-2014, 08:47 AM
You skipped someone -- the first place team in elevation gain.
Sorry.
Team 9 From Outer Space BAFS14: 13,247 points

I don't think we're going to catch you either.

hozn
03-20-2014, 12:15 PM
Howdy folks -

You may have noticed some fluctuation in the scoreboard today. I had a couple of bugs (it's what I get for not testing) that affected some people:
(1) The 5-day grace period for uploads was not implemented, so the sync scripts just bailed out as soon as it was after 12:01AM today. (I fixed that bug around 5:45 this AM, and that probably only affected a few of you that were out at Hains pt and not back till after midnight. i.e. "crazies")
(2) The logic to exclude rides where the end_date was > 12:01AM (today) was backwards; it returned "No [they're not excluded]" instead of "Yes". A stupid bug; it's what I get for doing this last night :)

The good news is that since Strava is the authoritative datasource we never run the risk of actually losing any data, just having scoreboards be slightly inaccurate. Anyway, I don't think there's any confusion about the overall winners, but I am resyncing the full content now (which normally happens nightly). This process is is kinda slow and so you may see numbers fluctuating (growing) on the site for the next 30-60 minutes.

Sorry for any confusion!

cvcalhoun
03-20-2014, 01:06 PM
Thanks for fixing this, so I could capture the coveted pointless prize for most time after sunset. Oh, wait, there is no prize for that? Well, that just makes it even more pointless, and thus presumably more ELITE. ;)


Howdy folks -

You may have noticed some fluctuation in the scoreboard today. I had a couple of bugs (it's what I get for not testing) that affected some people:
(1) The 5-day grace period for uploads was not implemented, so the sync scripts just bailed out as soon as it was after 12:01AM today. (I fixed that bug around 5:45 this AM, and that probably only affected a few of you that were out at Hains pt and not back till after midnight. i.e. "crazies")
(2) The logic to exclude rides where the end_date was > 12:01AM (today) was backwards; it returned "No [they're not excluded]" instead of "Yes". A stupid bug; it's what I get for doing this last night :)

The good news is that since Strava is the authoritative datasource we never run the risk of actually losing any data, just having scoreboards be slightly inaccurate. Anyway, I don't think there's any confusion about the overall winners, but I am resyncing the full content now (which normally happens nightly). This process is is kinda slow and so you may see numbers fluctuating (growing) on the site for the next 30-60 minutes.

Sorry for any confusion!

jrenaut
03-20-2014, 01:11 PM
Thanks for fixing this, so I could capture the coveted pointless prize for most time after sunset. Oh, wait, there is no prize for that? Well, that just makes it even more pointless, and thus presumably more ELITE. ;)
Being a crazy person is its own reward.

jrenaut
03-20-2014, 08:25 PM
It felt good to ride home today without turning on the Strava app.

Steve O
03-20-2014, 09:16 PM
It felt good to ride home today without turning on the Strava app.
But then how do you know you rode?

Rod Smith
03-20-2014, 09:30 PM
Thanks for fixing this, so I could capture the coveted pointless prize for most time after sunset. Oh, wait, there is no prize for that? Well, that just makes it even more pointless, and thus presumably more ELITE. ;)

Congrats. I'll buy you a beer.

jrenaut
03-20-2014, 09:31 PM
But then how do you know you rode?
My legs hurt.

cvcalhoun
03-20-2014, 11:15 PM
In what is probably heresy for this forum, I don't actually like beer. But I'd love to get together for a drink sometime, even if it's only a Diet Coke. Just shoot me a PM, and we'll work something out.


Congrats. I'll buy you a beer.

ShawnoftheDread
03-21-2014, 10:00 AM
In what is probably heresy for this forum, I don't actually like beer.

No, heresy can be forgiven. But this...

jrenaut
03-21-2014, 10:02 AM
...I don't actually like beer...
How do you recover after long rides?

ShawnoftheDread
03-21-2014, 10:50 AM
How do you recover after long rides?

With a short ride.

cvcalhoun
03-21-2014, 04:10 PM
Currently recovering from a ride in a Barnes & Noble, with a caffeinated beverage, food, books, and free WiFi.


How do you recover after long rides?

Steve O
03-21-2014, 05:21 PM
a ride in a Barnes & Noble. . ..
They let you take your bike in?

Arlingtonrider
03-21-2014, 05:22 PM
Cool! I've always wanted to ride my bike in a Barnes and Noble! ;)

Just kidding - that sounds like a great way to recover to me!

jrenaut
03-21-2014, 05:50 PM
Once all the Barnes and Noble finally all go out of business, maybe we can convert them to velodromes.

cyclingfool
03-23-2014, 09:09 AM
Once all the Barnes and Noble finally all go out of business, maybe we can convert them to velodromes.

Until then, they can host aisle cat races.