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hozn
12-10-2013, 02:35 PM
Hi folks -

I've gone ahead and pushed out a new version of the Freezing Saddles scoreboard / data analysis application. Most of the guts are the same, though the Strava API library had to be rewritten (since their new API is very different). Also, the site layout looks much different (better), thanks to jrenaut!

At this point we don't have teams yet (it's just configured for the single "BikeArlington" club), so there's really no data, but if you'd like to help us iron out bugs, please go ahead and authorize this app to read your Strava data!

http://freezingsaddles.com/authorize

Once we have some more authorization tokens (i.e. the auth codes we get when you allow this app to read your data), we can work out any bugs related to ride synchronization. And once we have more data, we can start building out a few of the other pages we want to create. (E.g. we'll have a text-only scoreboard reminiscent of ronwalf's from last year with clickable links; the Google charts are cool, but not so useful for drilling down to Strava club or athlete pages, etc.)

Any feedback appreciated, of course. :)

And when the mechanics are working smoothly I'll turn my attention back to developing some cool branding.

Tim Kelley
12-10-2013, 02:44 PM
Even if I'm not participating in the contest, would it mess up things if I authorized my account to show up on the scoreboard?

hozn
12-10-2013, 02:49 PM
Even if I'm not participating in the contest, would it mess up things if I authorized my account to show up on the scoreboard?

No, that'd be great! (I'm also "signed up" even though I won't be participating.)

hozn
12-10-2013, 02:54 PM
And just to be clear, I have no idea what is wrong with the individual leaderboards :) The scores are pretty wild. Probably has to do with changing the timeframe for the competition for testing. Anyway, we'll sort these things out before real launch.

ronwalf
12-10-2013, 06:57 PM
Looks like the 'people' section is throwing errors (500 Internal Server Error)?

Did the soft launch score period start this week? I'm not showing up, yet.

hozn
12-10-2013, 07:38 PM
Yeah, the (test) period is supposed to be from Dec 1. There were (probably still are) some issues with sync, but I would expect your activities to show up shortly if they have not yet.

I will check out the people section - thanks! I just blindly pulled latest repo and did not sync up with jrenaut on that (he is working on that feature).

jrenaut
12-10-2013, 07:48 PM
I'm not seeing 500 errors - has something changed? Hozn and I are still getting into the swing of working together on this, so there may be some missed signals here and there.

ronwalf
12-10-2013, 07:58 PM
I'm not seeing 500 errors - has something changed? Hozn and I are still getting into the swing of working together on this, so there may be some missed signals here and there.

It's working for me now, too (and my rides showed up).

jrenaut
12-10-2013, 08:03 PM
It's working for me now, too (and my rides showed up).
Okay, good. Let me know if there's something you'd like to see there.

hozn
12-10-2013, 08:11 PM
Yeah, I fixed it, no prob. I think it was a code path that wasn't exercised with the old data.

Subby
12-11-2013, 09:00 AM
Is there a way to show both the competitor's strava name AND their forum name?

jrenaut
12-11-2013, 09:23 AM
Easy to display, but not so easy to get the data. Maybe next year we can add that to the signup form.

hozn
12-11-2013, 10:50 AM
Easy to display, but not so easy to get the data. Maybe next year we can add that to the signup form.

I think rcannon put it on the form? So if we get a dump of the registration results we should be able to add it to the database.

It might be nice to also get the handicap numbers so we could have metrics for how hard folks are pushing themselves (or sandbagging, I guess).

jrenaut
12-11-2013, 10:56 AM
Oh, right, I had forgotten that was on the form. Disregard my previous message.

bikeeveryday
12-11-2013, 11:42 AM
Me too. Just "signed up" but won't be joining any team. Wanted to see how this works out.


No, that'd be great! (I'm also "signed up" even though I won't be participating.)

Mikey
12-11-2013, 11:48 AM
Me too. Just "signed up" but won't be joining any team. Wanted to see how this works out.

Aw, Come on, that's no fun. You know you want to join our stupidity and get out there with us. Otherwise we will shame you into changing your forum nickname to bikeeveryNICEday. ;)

jopamora
12-11-2013, 12:42 PM
Aw, Come on, that's no fun. You know you want to join our stupidity and get out there with us. Otherwise we will shame you into changing your forum nickname to bikeeveryNICEday. ;)

Zing!

americancyclo
12-11-2013, 12:49 PM
I'm getting internal server errors on my android web browser. (can't get to website from work computer)

hozn
12-11-2013, 02:50 PM
I'm getting internal server errors on my android web browser. (can't get to website from work computer)

Where (which pages) are you seeing errors? I just opened it up here and the few I tried seem fine.

americancyclo
12-11-2013, 03:25 PM
I can get to authorize, but after i login with my strava data, it goes to the ISE page. I'll try tonight from a laptop and let you know!

hozn
12-11-2013, 05:59 PM
Ok, I will check the error logs. Very likely a problem on the server, not your end.

peterw_diy
12-11-2013, 06:03 PM
Is there a way to show both the competitor's strava name AND their forum name?

I prefer that BAFS not expose Strava profile info.
* I'd prefer that BAFS use my forum name than my Strava name.
* I'd prefer that BAFS use its own participant ID #s and not expose my Strava "athlete" number.
* I'd prefer that BAFS not show the names I've assigned to rides.
* I'd prefer that BAFS not expose my ride "activity" numbers, and certainly not link to the Strava display for those rides.

I'm new to Strava so I guess I'll figure some of this out as I play with the soft-launch BAFS site, but it really gives me the heebie-jeebies thinking that BAFS could lead to exposing so much info -- routes, days I ride vs. days I might be on vacation, rough home location, etc.

The site looks really nice. though. I like the ice blue color scheme. And thanks for putting the code on github. Note: I don't see any license info; I'd suggest you clarify that so other localities can better judge whether they can just pull the code & run it on their own server.

guga31bb
12-11-2013, 06:47 PM
I'm new to Strava so I guess I'll figure some of this out as I play with the soft-launch BAFS site, but it really gives me the heebie-jeebies thinking that BAFS could lead to exposing so much info -- routes, days I ride vs. days I might be on vacation, rough home location, etc.

How is that different from using Strava in general?

hozn
12-11-2013, 07:03 PM
I prefer that BAFS not expose Strava profile info.
* I'd prefer that BAFS use my forum name than my Strava name.
* I'd prefer that BAFS use its own participant ID #s and not expose my Strava "athlete" number.
* I'd prefer that BAFS not show the names I've assigned to rides.
* I'd prefer that BAFS not expose my ride "activity" numbers, and certainly not link to the Strava display for those rides.

I'm new to Strava so I guess I'll figure some of this out as I play with the soft-launch BAFS site, but it really gives me the heebie-jeebies thinking that BAFS could lead to exposing so much info -- routes, days I ride vs. days I might be on vacation, rough home location, etc.

The site looks really nice. though. I like the ice blue color scheme. And thanks for putting the code on github. Note: I don't see any license info; I'd suggest you clarify that so other localities can better judge whether they can just pull the code & run it on their own server.

Yeah, as guga31bb pointed out this data is all publicly available on Strava. That said, we can take some steps to increase privacy on the site.
- We can use firstname and last initial instead of full names.
- We could consider using forum names instead, but we may not have that data -- and anyone could click the link to view a user's Strava profile and see their name (Strava will always show full names to registered users, but to unauthenticated/public users there is the option to do firstname + last initial only.) You can also change your name in Strava to something that is not your name; some people certainly do that.
- You can setup privacy circles in Strava to not reveal exactly locations where you stop/start your ride. This is of limited value if you use real names, as other will point out, but it's something.

Sorry I overlooked the license in the source code. It's licensed under Apache license; it's mentioned in the setup.py, but I will add that to the source code (and add the requisite source headers). This has been very much an experimental or "duct tape" project with lots of pieces being swapped out, but the intent is always there to clean up the code and make it more generally useful (and the technology underneath is slowly solidifying).

peterw_diy
12-11-2013, 07:18 PM
Yeah, as guga31bb pointed out this data is all publicly available on Strava.

We'll see. I've just upped my Strava privacy settings; we'll see if BAFS works with that, and what the difference is. Right away I see that Strava won't show anon users my climbing stats, nor a list of my rides. From the authentication UI on Strava, it sounds like BAFS will have access to more info than anonymous strava.com visitors.


We could consider using forum names instead, but we may not have that data -- and anyone could click the link to view a user's Strava profile and see their name

Viewing the profile is only true if you add the link or otherwise expose the Strava ID #. The BAFS user table could have its own unique IDs (autoincrement int, GUID, whatever) and be designed to never disclose the Strava ID# in anything sent to a client. And you could always use something like "Rider #42" if the rider hasn't filled out the registration form (or only use data for riders where you do have all the data you want, like forum names).

Apache license -- cool. I think Freezing Saddles is a great idea, and I could easily see other regions wanting to take advantage of your work.

hozn
12-11-2013, 07:33 PM
I can get to authorize, but after i login with my strava data, it goes to the ISE page. I'll try tonight from a laptop and let you know!

It looks like we had a bug with profiles that include unicode data. Maybe yours does? Anyway, hopefully this is fixed; let me know if not.

peterw_diy
12-11-2013, 07:35 PM
Also, I think it would be good for BAFS to have a Privacy page that explains a bit about Strava's current privacy settings, to help educate any folks like me that have not really used Strava before. You don't want participation in BAFS leading to problems for any riders who don't think this through. Hopefully the others who've signed on have though through this -- e.g., hopefully Tim doesn't mind my seeing where he bought his Christmas tree last weekend and how he got it home.

hozn
12-11-2013, 07:41 PM
We'll see. I've just upped my Strava privacy settings; we'll see if BAFS works with that, and what the difference is. Right away I see that Strava won't show anon users my climbing stats, nor a list of my rides. From the authentication UI on Strava, it sounds like BAFS will have access to more info than anonymous strava.com visitors.

Yes, more access than anonymous users. There are limits; we can't see private rides. I'm not sure about other privacy settings (we won't see inside privacy zones, I don't believe, but we're not pulling those streams [yet]).



Viewing the profile is only true if you add the link or otherwise expose the Strava ID #. The BAFS user table could have its own unique IDs (autoincrement int, GUID, whatever) and be designed to never disclose the Strava ID# in anything sent to a client. And you could always use something like "Rider #42" if the rider hasn't filled out the registration form (or only use data for riders where you do have all the data you want, like forum names).

Well, I think one of the things that participants liked about the competition was the social aspect. From my optic, linking to Strava profiles is something we /do/ want. We want to take advantage of social features like photos and comments that Strava provides to supplement forum discussions. I don't think this competition caters especially to people that really don't want any of their ride data made public. (Of course, you can enter only manual rides and change your Strava name if you want to minimize personal details on Strava.)


Apache license -- cool. I think Freezing Saddles is a great idea, and I could easily see other regions wanting to take advantage of your work.

Yeah, if others think it would be useful, I hope they'll adapt it to their own challenges!

rcannon100
12-11-2013, 08:00 PM
I think Freezing Saddles is a great idea, and I could easily see other regions wanting to take advantage of your work.

Put it in a bottle and make $M Hozn! Maybe you can launch a kick starter page!

hozn
12-11-2013, 08:40 PM
Also, I think it would be good for BAFS to have a Privacy page that explains a bit about Strava's current privacy settings, to help educate any folks like me that have not really used Strava before. You don't want participation in BAFS leading to problems for any riders who don't think this through. Hopefully the others who've signed on have though through this -- e.g., hopefully Tim doesn't mind my seeing where he bought his Christmas tree last weekend and how he got it home.

Honestly, I feel that this is comprehensively covered by Strava's privacy policy / terms of service and the authorization description that happens when you allow this application to use your data. I don't want to have to keep this app in sync with Strava's evolving privacy policy ... we could put something up to the effect of "go read Strava's privacy policy" if that would be helpful. I'll take a look at what the other folks in this space are doing. If someone wants to write a privacy policy page, jrenaut or I will be happy to consider pull requests. :)

The firstname + last initial has been implemented, although it'll need to be revised since apparently we have two "Chris R" users, for example. Perhaps I'll keep full names in the backend database and only have the display values truncated. And add logic to add letters to the last names to disambiguate.

americancyclo
12-11-2013, 08:46 PM
It looks like we had a bug with profiles that include unicode data. Maybe yours does? Anyway, hopefully this is fixed; let me know if not.
just succeeded with a laptop!

KayakCyndi
12-11-2013, 08:47 PM
I'm playing around with this and it looks great. Thanks Hozn!

Potential bug (or maybe browser incompatibility or user error) issue: When on the "data exploration tab" I click on something like "time in saddle" and the screen flashes then goes blank and resets to elevation gain. This happens for all categories. If I pick the same category again it then works fine. Strange. I'm using Firefox but will try it in Chrome and Explorer tomorrow.

hozn
12-11-2013, 09:08 PM
Thanks! -- And thanks for heads up on that issue. I think jrenaut mentioned this and I forgot. Something incompatible in the new styles -- I will run that to ground soon. I don't think it is browser specific, but it may be.

peterw_diy
12-11-2013, 09:57 PM
Well, I think one of the things that participants liked about the competition was the social aspect. From my optic, linking to Strava profiles is something we /do/ want. We want to take advantage of social features like photos and comments that Strava provides to supplement forum discussions. I don't think this competition caters especially to people that really don't want any of their ride data made public

As currently designed, no, it doesn't. I think BAFS might benefit from letting riders choose whether to expose more than just their ride count, mileage, and climbing stats. You'd more likely attract folks like me who are nervous about Strava, and IMO (though I could be wrong) would not significantly reduce the level of fun for folks who like Strava.

I think Strava has a very different vibe from this forum -- it focuses on personal bests, KOM, segment speed leaderboards where this forum is much more truly social -- folks offering advice, nominating others for WWPD awards, etc. Strava = competition, BA forums = cooperation. The current design of BAFS feels like a Strava app that happened to be born on this forum. I had expected it to feel more like this forum, merely using Strava as a data source.

I'll try to let this go, especially since I'm not volunteering code. Nothing worse than whiny users going on an on about feature enhancements they'd like without contributing any source. :-)

KLizotte
12-11-2013, 10:24 PM
Hi programmers. There are two Kathy L's. Any way to distinguish which is which? You could call me Kathy Li for instance.

ShawnoftheDread
12-11-2013, 10:35 PM
Hi programmers. There are two Kathy L's. Any way to distinguish which is which? You could call me Kathy Li for instance.

I once worked in a restaurant with two servers named Erica H. On their checks, one was Erica Ha and the other was Erica Ho. Good times.

KLizotte
12-11-2013, 11:07 PM
I'm playing around with this and it looks great. Thanks Hozn!

Potential bug (or maybe browser incompatibility or user error) issue: When on the "data exploration tab" I click on something like "time in saddle" and the screen flashes then goes blank and resets to elevation gain. This happens for all categories. If I pick the same category again it then works fine. Strange. I'm using Firefox but will try it in Chrome and Explorer tomorrow.

I have the same problem in internet explorer. I can get it to work in Safari if I hold down the ctrl key so as to prevent the popup blocker from working. For some reason this does not work in IE.

hozn
12-12-2013, 01:10 AM
Hi programmers. There are two Kathy L's. Any way to distinguish which is which? You could call me Kathy Li for instance.

Some forum members may be required to change their legal names, unfortunately :)

Yeah, first initial of last name is obviously not quite enough.

So, I guess the obvious question: Is it valuable to people that we don't use full names (assuming that you do use full names in Strava)? If so, I will do as Shaun suggests and use two letters (etc.) for conflicting names. This doesn't matter to me either way.

I believe last year we just used names as they appeared in Strava, though I could be wrong. Also the behavior of the old APIs might have been to honor athlete's settings wrt hiding full last names.

MattAune
12-12-2013, 07:36 AM
I vote for the use of full names, and complete strava integration.

Does Strava expose the instagram photos in it's API, or would you have to call the instagram API directly and filter out ride pictures? A prize for most pictures and best picture could be fun.

Amalitza
12-12-2013, 07:54 AM
How often is is supposed to update? I authorized around lunchtime yesterday and showed up under people almost immediately, but is still showing zero rides and zero mileage even though I do have rides and miles in Strava. Don't know if that should be the case because it only updates every day at noon or something, or if it means there's a bug. I am Karen Smith on strava if it's a bug and knowing who to look at helps find and fix it.

Amalitza
12-12-2013, 08:00 AM
Fwiw, I don’t see the benefit in using only first name and last initial on the leaderboards unless there are people who feel strongly both about wanting to use their real, full name on strava for some reason and also don’t want it showing on the leaderboards. It’s easy enough to use not-your-real-name on Strava. Karen Smith is not my real name. If someone happens to notice me logging miles somewhere exotic, they can’t search property records for my name to figure out which house it is I’m leaving vacant while I’m on vacation, for example. That doesn’t address all of peter’s privacy concerns by any means, just an opinion specifically on the use of names.

jrenaut
12-12-2013, 08:08 AM
I'll try to let this go, especially since I'm not volunteering code. Nothing worse than whiny users going on an on about feature enhancements they'd like without contributing any source. :-)
I think it's important to respect the different levels of comfort that people have with exposing data online. It's easy to forget that just because I'm comfortable with something doesn't mean everyone is. I'm talking to hozn about the best way to implement this to maximize everyone's enjoyment of BAFS.

hozn
12-12-2013, 08:11 AM
How often is is supposed to update? I authorized around lunchtime yesterday and showed up under people almost immediately, but is still showing zero rides and zero mileage even though I do have rides and miles in Strava. Don't know if that should be the case because it only updates every day at noon or something, or if it means there's a bug. I am Karen Smith on strava if it's a bug and knowing who to look at helps find and fix it.

It is supposed to update every 15 minutes. Is it possible that you are not a member of the BikeArlington Strava club? Right now we only update accounts that are a members of one of the teams (obviously BikeArlington isn't a real team; it was just chosen as I assumed most people would belong to that club).

It's also possible -- even likely! -- that there are more glitches in the sync algorithm. I noticed that we seem to have exceeded one of the Strava rate limits yesterday; I need to clean up the syncing code so that when we do the "full resync" every night we don't actually refetch all ride segments in addition to all the rides (unless the distance for a ride somehow changed or something).

Amalitza
12-12-2013, 08:21 AM
I am a member of the bike arlington club.

ronwalf
12-12-2013, 08:21 AM
Yes, more access than anonymous users. There are limits; we can't see private rides. I'm not sure about other privacy settings (we won't see inside privacy zones, I don't believe, but we're not pulling those streams [yet]).


One of the privacy settings for Strava is to require permission to follow a user before seeing a list of their rides. I have this one set.

So you can see my rides if you follow me, have a direct link to the ride, or are a member of one of the same clubs as me (not entirely sure on the last one). The FS site adds a new way (http://freezingsaddles.com/people/265671).

I think removing that page or making it only accessible to challenge members would alleviate a number of the privacy issues Peter mentioned?

hozn
12-12-2013, 08:22 AM
I tend to agree that it's easy to change names in Strava, so my default position would be that we should show what athletes have decided to show in Strava. I think the only difference here is that we don't appear to be limited by the Strava privacy option which only exposes last initials to unauthenticated people visiting strava.com. I threw in the towel on privacy a long time ago (having a distinctive name makes it particularly difficult), but I recognize that some people are still fighting that headwind. :)

So, I would propose that we:
- Use the initials, but make sure we disambiguate duplicates.
- Continue the tradition of linking leaderboards to strava accounts, where privacy settings on strava.com will determine what people are allowed to see without logging in, etc. Allowing people to connect on Strava seems particularly valuable to me; I really enjoyed following people on other teams, etc. Much of that interaction was via Strava. (Strava does not have to be about KOMs; this challenge is probably a great example of purely social Strava.)
- Continue to list ride titles but not geographic/location information. We can make the titles clickable so that people can go to strava for more details -- and again, privacy settings on strava.com would then apply.

Of course, we may end up using ride geography on leaderboards or heatmaps etc. later, so it's hard to guarantee that we won't ever expose geographic data, but we can at least take a mindful approach to how we use that.

hozn
12-12-2013, 08:31 AM
One of the privacy settings for Strava is to require permission to follow a user before seeing a list of their rides. I have this one set.

So you can see my rides if you follow me, have a direct link to the ride, or are a member of one of the same clubs as me (not entirely sure on the last one). The FS site adds a new way (http://freezingsaddles.com/people/265671).

I think removing that page or making it only accessible to challenge members would alleviate a number of the privacy issues Peter mentioned?

I didn't realize that having a direct link would allow a non-follower to see the ride. That throws a wrench in my idea of linking to the rides from that recent rides page.

jrenaut, maybe we should change that to only show summary information rather than ride titles, etc.?

Mikey
12-12-2013, 08:31 AM
Sorry if you had the same problem and fixed it already. I am a member of Bike Arlington Strava Club, I posted a 1.9 mile ride yesterday to try out the program. My ride registered on Strava but didn't record on Freezing Saddles.

Tim Kelley
12-12-2013, 08:40 AM
e.g., hopefully Tim doesn't mind my seeing where he bought his Christmas tree last weekend and how he got it home.

Sure don't! That's kind of why I posted it--so you'd be inspired to go get one yourself! (I also put it on Twitter, Facebook and Imgur and Reddit...)

americancyclo
12-12-2013, 08:58 AM
I threw in the towel on privacy a long time ago
I'm with you on this.


Allowing people to connect on Strava seems particularly valuable to me; I really enjoyed following people on other teams, etc. Much of that interaction was via Strava. (Strava does not have to be about KOMs; this challenge is probably a great example of purely social Strava.)
I think about 90% of my interaction with strava is in a purely social context. Sure the KOMs make things competitive, but not of their own accord. There has to be some buy-in from the user as well.

I'm all for instituting any changes that the developers are willing to implement, but I don't want them to overwork themselves, since it's a labor of love. I think we all need to make a decision based on our personal tolerances for privacy when it comes to any situation. For some, they have no issue, for others, they may choose to opt out.

Thanks hozn, jrenaut, and ronwalf for your hard work!

americancyclo
12-12-2013, 09:09 AM
The Average Speed seems off. some examples:

TimK
Aerobar MTB Pete's-Gravel-Grinder-50K (4x KOMs in Memory of Paul Walker)
Freezing Saddles:6.4
Strava:14.3

ShawnG
12/10/2013 riding the GGB before my flight
Freezing Saddles:5.6
Strava:12.6

Tim Kelley
12-12-2013, 09:24 AM
Aerobar MTB Pete's-Gravel-Grinder-50K (4x KOMs in Memory of Paul Walker)

That Paul Walker really knew how to wear a pair of jeans well. He will be missed.

Jason B
12-12-2013, 10:04 AM
Thanks hozn, jrenaut, and ronwalf for your hard work!

I am really looking forward to this fun competition for the first time. I am very grateful for all the hard work all of you are doing to make this happen. I would have blown up ten times already and probably would have been banned from the forum and possibly the sport by now.

ronwalf
12-12-2013, 10:22 AM
Thanks hozn, jrenaut, and ronwalf for your hard work!

I can't take any credit this year - it's all hozn and jrenaut! I'm still harboring a vague hope of put together a pointless prize before the deadline.

hozn
12-12-2013, 10:24 AM
The Average Speed seems off. some examples:

TimK
Aerobar MTB Pete's-Gravel-Grinder-50K (4x KOMs in Memory of Paul Walker)
Freezing Saddles:6.4
Strava:14.3

ShawnG
12/10/2013 riding the GGB before my flight
Freezing Saddles:5.6
Strava:12.6

Damn -- more units errors! :) I will get this fixed, but yeah, I'm guessing those are in meters per second? I believe that is the metric that Strava uses internally and I obviously did not correctly convert them on insert to miles-per-hour. Thank goodness I'm not trying to land something on Mars.

americancyclo
12-12-2013, 11:28 AM
Damn -- more units errors! :) I will get this fixed, but yeah, I'm guessing those are in meters per second? I believe that is the metric that Strava uses internally and I obviously did not correctly convert them on insert to miles-per-hour. Thank goodness I'm not trying to land something on Mars.

Great opportunity to get BA Forum folks on the metric system with the rest of the world!

Mikey
12-12-2013, 11:37 AM
Great opportunity to get BA Forum folks on the metric system with the rest of the world!

Whoa there, slow your roll "Euro"cylco. I'll continue to measure my ride in Rods and Furlongs As Jesus intended.

dbb
12-12-2013, 11:50 AM
Whoa there, slow your roll "Euro"cylco. I'll continue to measure my ride in Rods and Furlongs As Jesus intended.

And the only acceptable units to express velocity are furlongs per fortnight

americancyclo
12-12-2013, 12:22 PM
Whoa there, slow your roll "Euro"cylco. I'll continue to measure my ride in Rods and Furlongs As Jesus intended.

Well it sure isn't 'muricancyclo'

cyclingfool
12-12-2013, 12:47 PM
Great opportunity to get BA Forum folks on the metric system with the rest of the world!

Great point, although the basic metric measure for speed of this sort is usually kph.

m/s is reserved in common parlance for wind speed, at least in Eastern Europe. Why they didn't just stick to kph for wind speed, too, I'll never understand.

cyclingfool
12-12-2013, 12:54 PM
It is supposed to update every 15 minutes. Is it possible that you are not a member of the BikeArlington Strava club? Right now we only update accounts that are a members of one of the teams (obviously BikeArlington isn't a real team; it was just chosen as I assumed most people would belong to that club).

It's also possible -- even likely! -- that there are more glitches in the sync algorithm. I noticed that we seem to have exceeded one of the Strava rate limits yesterday; I need to clean up the syncing code so that when we do the "full resync" every night we don't actually refetch all ride segments in addition to all the rides (unless the distance for a ride somehow changed or something).

Thanks for all your work on the back end stuff!!! Having studies Pascal (of all things) in high school comp. sci. and dabbled with teaching myself some very basic Java, I am blown away by people that can actually do this sort of stuff.

Like acl, my rides are not appearing. I thought I'd figured it out when I realized I hadn't joined the Bike Arlington club on Strava, buy I've done that now and given the FS page 30-45 min to see me and sync the couple rides I'd logged on Strava this week to help test with the soft launch, including one just this AM.

I'm Eric W when not going by my forum name...

hozn
12-12-2013, 01:07 PM
Thanks for all your work on the back end stuff!!! Having studies Pascal (of all things) in high school comp. sci. and dabbled with teaching myself some very basic Java, I am blown away by people that can actually do this sort of stuff.

No prob; I enjoy it. But I should recommend that you take a look at python instead! http://www.diveintopython.net/toc/index.html Perhaps a little less marketable than Java, but by far the most fun I have ever had programming.


Like acl, my rides are not appearing. I thought I'd figured it out when I realized I hadn't joined the Bike Arlington club on Strava, buy I've done that now and given the FS page 30-45 min to see me and sync the couple rides I'd logged on Strava this week to help test with the soft launch, including one just this AM.


It looks like there is a bug in the sync code such that athletes are having their club (team) membership zeroed out -- and then they are skipped for the next sync. I temporarily fixed it, but it might get reset. I should be able to run that to ground tonight or this weekend. (This is why we're doing the pre-testing; thanks to everyone for helping out while we sort these things out!)

Subby
12-12-2013, 01:38 PM
I prefer that BAFS not expose Strava profile info.
* I'd prefer that BAFS use my forum name than my Strava name.
* I'd prefer that BAFS use its own participant ID #s and not expose my Strava "athlete" number.
* I'd prefer that BAFS not show the names I've assigned to rides.
* I'd prefer that BAFS not expose my ride "activity" numbers, and certainly not link to the Strava display for those rides.

I'm new to Strava so I guess I'll figure some of this out as I play with the soft-launch BAFS site, but it really gives me the heebie-jeebies thinking that BAFS could lead to exposing so much info -- routes, days I ride vs. days I might be on vacation, rough home location, etc.

The site looks really nice. though. I like the ice blue color scheme. And thanks for putting the code on github. Note: I don't see any license info; I'd suggest you clarify that so other localities can better judge whether they can just pull the code & run it on their own server.
I am a serial Strava friender and kudoser. Once I find out who you are, I will friend you on Strava and kudos your rides and you will be powerless against my relentless positivism.

MWUAHAHAHAHA.

Kudos!

DismalScientist
12-12-2013, 01:39 PM
I think Strava should add a jeer button in addition to kudos.

cyclingfool
12-12-2013, 01:47 PM
No prob; I enjoy it. But I should recommend that you take a look at python instead! http://www.diveintopython.net/toc/index.html Perhaps a little less marketable than Java, but by far the most fun I have ever had programming.

The Pascal reference was just to date myself, though I suppose it was still helpful for helping me understand programming logic.

I have "Pocket"ed your python link for future reference at a time when I'm not inundated by work at the office and for grad school. Thanks for that. Python is used for custom scripts in ArcGIS, an interest of mine given my urban planning trajectory, so it may, in fact, be more marketable than Java in my case. :)

cyclingfool
12-12-2013, 01:48 PM
I think Strava should add a jeer button in addition to kudos.

I would be mocked endlessly... :p If I had any friends on Strava, that is.

I have a feeling Subby's gonna relentlessly track me down now.

jrenaut
12-12-2013, 03:04 PM
The Pascal reference was just to date myself, though I suppose it was still helpful for helping me understand programming logic.

I have "Pocket"ed your python link for future reference at a time when I'm not inundated by work at the office and for grad school. Thanks for that. Python is used for custom scripts in ArcGIS, an interest of mine given my urban planning trajectory, so it may, in fact, be more marketable than Java in my case. :)
I never did Pascal, but I did C++ and FORTRAN in college (which probably dates me as older than I actually am). Then I did Java for work and thought it was great. Until the first time I tried Python. Python is better than Java in every way imaginable. For every problem that can be solved in five lines of Python, it can also be solved with 5 .jar files, 172 .xml files, a specialized server that takes 6 hours to deploy.

dkel
12-12-2013, 06:37 PM
I never did Pascal, but I did C++ and FORTRAN in college (which probably dates me as older than I actually am). Then I did Java for work and thought it was great. Until the first time I tried Python. Python is better than Java in every way imaginable. For every problem that can be solved in five lines of Python, it can also be solved with 5 .jar files, 172 .xml files, a specialized server that takes 6 hours to deploy.

Wait a minute...I was on the bike forum a minute ago...

:p

Vicegrip
12-12-2013, 06:50 PM
Wait a minute...I was on the bike forum a minute ago...

:p
..that was in english...:)

Big thanks to all that are making this not just work but work with all the little details that make it all the more fun and "local" but still pro in function.

dkel
12-12-2013, 06:59 PM
Big thanks to all that are making this not just work but work with all the little details that make it all the more fun and "local" but still pro in function.

Hear, hear!

creadinger
12-14-2013, 01:05 PM
Great point, although the basic metric measure for speed of this sort is usually kph.

m/s is reserved in common parlance for wind speed, at least in Eastern Europe. Why they didn't just stick to kph for wind speed, too, I'll never understand.

m/s is the official SI unit and is in all of the numerical models. kph is used just so that people can feel comfortable enough to go to sleep a night. kph is used in other realms like human transportation I guess, so people know it better.

creadinger
12-14-2013, 01:06 PM
I see that names have been shortened to First name, Last initial and that there are 2 Chris R's now. I doubt anyone would confuse me with the other Chris' rides and mileage totals, but I would appreciate it we could separate ourselves so that I don't log in and mistakenly think I'm in first place or something.

I can go by Christ, R or something. That's what my name was on the Scantron tests in grade school....

hozn
12-14-2013, 03:11 PM
Yes that was a known issue. I just pushed up the fix for that a few minutes ago.

cvcalhoun
12-15-2013, 12:21 AM
I still don't have a team, although I assume I'll be assigned to one eventually. But I did give access to my data.

hozn
12-15-2013, 01:06 AM
If you join the BikeArlington club your rides will show up during this test phase.

Jason B
12-15-2013, 05:13 PM
Curious, Is there a way to check the competition from the strava site, like a club icon? I currently have to go through the link at the beginning of this thread, which is totally fine, but I just wanted to check if i was missing something.

hozn
12-15-2013, 07:19 PM
Curious, Is there a way to check the competition from the strava site, like a club icon? I currently have to go through the link at the beginning of this thread, which is totally fine, but I just wanted to check if i was missing something.

Once there are teams, we could probably add URLs to the team descriptions, though I don't know how convenient that would be.

Probably there should be a sticky thread created with the URL, the team members, the rules, etc. -- once teams have been chosen.

But in the interim it shouldn't be *too* hard to remember freezingsaddles.com ! :)

hozn
12-15-2013, 08:28 PM
Just to update, I think that the bugs that have been identified thus far have been fixed. Obviously with only a single team we're not executing all codepaths here, but I'm feeling pretty good about the state of the scoreboard app.

Major changes since initial test launch:
- A number of bug fixes related to the syncing. If you are a member of BikeArlington club *and* not seeing rides/data since Dec 1, please let me know!
- Improved privacy by using only firstname + lastinitial (or as many letters as we need of last name to disambiguate). Links are made to Strava profiles to encourage competitors to connect on Strava. We can revisit this if there is concern, but Strava does also provide a mechanism to make ride data private / for followers only.
- Text versions of the leaderboards. These are designed to model the format of last year's official leaderboards. I've updated the homepage to only link to the team leaderboards, since those are really the only ones that matter.

I have not yet added the rules, but plan to.

The benefit of having Strava be the authoritative datasource is that we can continue to evolve the app and even if we accidentally break things and wipe out the database we can just reconstruct all the data with the next sync from Strava. It's a very low-stress operation -- and encourages experimentation/innovation with the site.

dasgeh
12-16-2013, 08:35 AM
If you are a member of BikeArlington club *and* not seeing rides/data since Dec 1, please let me know!


Me.

birddog
12-16-2013, 09:39 AM
Me too!

Mikey
12-16-2013, 09:40 AM
Should you run a week long test with multiple teams? Even if only 2 teams just to make sure that part is running well. Just a thought, not trying to tell you what to do, since you have done a great job already.

americancyclo
12-16-2013, 10:32 AM
aww yeah, leadin' the sleazin' for Dec 2013!

hozn
12-16-2013, 01:01 PM
@dasgeh & @birddog -- ok, I will investigate that. Obviously not all syncing bugs have been fixed! :)

@Mikey, yes, that is a great idea. I just need to find another team that people are a member of ... but then people have to "leave" the BikeArlington team. Or we just make two new clubs and divide people up randomly. I have tested with multiple teams on my system, so I don't *expect* issues, but then I also expected that dasgeh and birddog would be seeing their rides :-)

Also, if it goes out the door Jan 1 with some bugginess we'll be able to correct and nothing will be permanently mis-scored, etc. Again that's just the advantage of having all the local data & calculations be ephemeral and easy to re-create (or fix) by re-pulling data from Strava. Of course, we don't want to have an incorrect leaderboard, even on day 1.

Amalitza
12-16-2013, 02:49 PM
@Mikey, yes, that is a great idea. I just need to find another team that people are a member of ... but then people have to "leave" the BikeArlington team. Or we just make two new clubs and divide people up randomly. I have tested with multiple teams on my system, so I don't *expect* issues, but then I also expected that dasgeh and birddog would be seeing their rides :-)



You could probably use last year's teams for pre-season testing if you wanted. I know I haven't unjoined my team in Strava, I bet other people haven't either.

hozn
12-16-2013, 05:32 PM
You could probably use last year's teams for pre-season testing if you wanted. I know I haven't unjoined my team in Strava, I bet other people haven't either.

That is a good idea. I will look at doing that, though it may leave some people out of testing phase for a couple weeks.

Mikey
12-16-2013, 06:40 PM
You could just put me on a second team with someone else. The teams don't have to be even or make any sense, its just a test.

hozn
12-16-2013, 08:10 PM
Me too!

Birddog, I'm not sure who you are in freezing saddles / strava. If you don't see your name at all, maybe try re-authorizing the application: http://freezingsaddles.com/authorize

On the result page of the authorization, the app will tell you if there are any errors (like if you are not a member of any competition teams).

I notice the following people do not appear to be members of BikeArlington club:
- Carol C
- robert s

If you are one of those people, then please just double check that you have "joined" the bikearlington club: http://www.strava.com/clubs/bikearlington

I emailed dasgeh seperately, but it sounds she also may simply need to re-authorize. (There was a time early on when there were some bugs on initial authorization for certain accounts; that could explain both cases.)

cvcalhoun
12-17-2013, 01:08 AM
I'm Carol C., and I've now followed the link to join the BikeArlington club.

I must say, the process so far has been cumbersome. I've had to join this forum, join Strava, authorize BikeArlington Freezing Saddles as an app on Strava, and join the BikeArlington club on Strava. And the only way I've gotten this far is to subscribe to the forum, which means I get notified of a whole lot of posts in which I have no interest in order to get notices of the posts which tell me what I need to do to enter. Would there be some way to have a topic to which only administrators could post, that could include a set of instructions for what to do to enter, so that people could just follow that topic instead of following every post on this forum?
Birddog, I'm not sure who you are in freezing saddles / strava. If you don't see your name at all, maybe try re-authorizing the application: http://freezingsaddles.com/authorize

On the result page of the authorization, the app will tell you if there are any errors (like if you are not a member of any competition teams).

I notice the following people do not appear to be members of BikeArlington club:
- Carol C
- robert s

If you are one of those people, then please just double check that you have "joined" the bikearlington club: http://www.strava.com/clubs/bikearlington

I emailed dasgeh seperately, but it sounds she also may simply need to re-authorize. (There was a time early on when there were some bugs on initial authorization for certain accounts; that could explain both cases.)

cvcalhoun
12-18-2013, 10:36 PM
Carol C (a/k/a cvcalhoun) is now a member of BikeArlington club, and showing on the leaderboard.
Birddog, I'm not sure who you are in freezing saddles / strava. If you don't see your name at all, maybe try re-authorizing the application: http://freezingsaddles.com/authorize

On the result page of the authorization, the app will tell you if there are any errors (like if you are not a member of any competition teams).

I notice the following people do not appear to be members of BikeArlington club:
- Carol C
- robert s

If you are one of those people, then please just double check that you have "joined" the bikearlington club: http://www.strava.com/clubs/bikearlington

I emailed dasgeh seperately, but it sounds she also may simply need to re-authorize. (There was a time early on when there were some bugs on initial authorization for certain accounts; that could explain both cases.)

Subby
12-19-2013, 10:39 AM
Just blue-skying but would love it if this screen could be expanded: http://freezingsaddles.com/people

Some ideas:

- Give users the option to view by week/month/competition-to-date

- Add additional data like avg spd, elevation, time in the saddle, avg temp

- link to strava profile

Anyway - I love all of it. So great.

culimerc
12-19-2013, 10:54 AM
Should I be concerned that I did not see my name on that list?

Fast Friendly Guy
12-19-2013, 10:57 AM
As a former Winter Wimp, I feel like everything is falling into place:

new n+1 winter bike (TREK CrossRip)
fenders installed yesterday
studded tires finally arrived
bell installed
GPS mounted

All I need now is wet weather covers for my feet and a waterproof rear-rack trunk bag!
Suggestions welcome!

Arlingtonrider
12-19-2013, 11:06 AM
To make any trunk bag or pannier waterproof at no additional cost and negligible extra weight: Put your items into a plastic bag(s) and fold over the top, then put the bag(s) into whatever you use to carry things. ;)

dbb
12-19-2013, 11:18 AM
As a former Winter Wimp, I feel like everything is falling into place:

new n+1 winter bike (TREK CrossRip)
fenders installed yesterday
studded tires finally arrived
bell installed
GPS mounted

All I need now is wet weather covers for my feet and a waterproof rear-rack trunk bag!
Suggestions welcome!

Absent the bell and GPS, you are getting perilously close to a rule 5 violation! Just sayn'!

Fast Friendly Guy
12-19-2013, 11:20 AM
Absent the bell and GPS, you are getting perilously close to a rule 5 violation! Just sayn'!

Thanks....No surprise! I don't even know what Rule 5 is!

KayakCyndi
12-19-2013, 11:37 AM
Thanks....No surprise! I don't even know what Rule 5 is!

Let the indoctrination begin:

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

peterw_diy
12-19-2013, 12:45 PM
Clicking a column header to sort the People table starts with ascending order. Is that deliberate, putting slackers at the top to be more quickly identified for public ridicule?

hozn
12-19-2013, 12:52 PM
Should I be concerned that I did not see my name on that list?

Yes, but only if (1) you have authorized the app (http://freezingsaddles.com/authorize) -- it doesn't hurt to do this again -- and (2) you have joined the BikeArlington Strava club (really only relevant for testing phase).

consularrider
12-19-2013, 12:53 PM
Yes, but only if (1) you have authorized the app (http://freezingsaddles.com/authorize) -- it doesn't hurt to do this again -- and (2) you have joined the BikeArlington Strava club (really only relevant for testing phase).
or (3) you need the validation of appearing on silly lists. :p

jrenaut
12-19-2013, 01:23 PM
Clicking a column header to sort the People table starts with ascending order. Is that deliberate, putting slackers at the top to be more quickly identified for public ridicule?
It's just the package (http://datatables.net/) default.

Fast Friendly Guy
12-19-2013, 01:56 PM
Let the indoctrination begin:

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

Thanks, Cyndi, now I can get what folks are posting about.

americancyclo
01-02-2014, 08:22 AM
I was just poking around on freezingsaddles.com in the people section and noticed the "America!|Other" button.

Thanks for the laugh!

hozn
01-02-2014, 08:38 AM
I was just poking around on freezingsaddles.com in the people section and noticed the "America!|Other" button.

Thanks for the laugh!

Yeah, I wish I could take credit for that; that was all jrenaut :)

vvill
01-02-2014, 10:03 AM
Should be "America!/Liberia" really? I got a chuckle too.

rcannon100
01-03-2014, 08:17 PM
Bumping this. Please remember that you need to go to http://freezingsaddles.com/authorize and authorize the Freezing Saddles app. Not everyone is showing up on the leaderboard.

americancyclo
01-06-2014, 07:56 AM
Are the units for the graph of all the time leaderboards in seconds?

hozn
01-07-2014, 04:22 AM
Are the units for the graph of all the time leaderboards in seconds?

It looks like it! Is this just the "time in the saddle" chart? Admittedly,hours would probably be more intuitive there.

DCAKen
01-07-2014, 09:36 AM
On the home page, the button Team Leaderboard (Chart) send you to the text page.

dcv
01-07-2014, 07:01 PM
Hans, we need a bigger chart, top guys are falling off the edge.
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/vng2327/bike%20posts/Screenshot_2014-01-07-19-42-21_zps13000ac2.png

vvill
01-07-2014, 07:26 PM
I think it autoscales/autosizes based on the data. (But I'm not sure - just an assumption.)

Dirt
01-07-2014, 07:44 PM
Hans, we need a bigger chart, top guys are falling off the edge.
I'm offended by the color of my bubble. ;)

Arlingtonrider
01-07-2014, 08:03 PM
Hans, we need a bigger chart, top guys are falling off the edge.

Either that or they need to slow down. ;)

Rod Smith
01-07-2014, 08:08 PM
Either that or they need to slow down. ;)

The size of the bubbles correlates to speed. If I slow down much more, I'll disappear. :(

Arlingtonrider
01-07-2014, 08:13 PM
The size of the bubbles correlates to speed. If I slow down much more, I'll disappear. :(

We can't have that happen. Carry on, then! :)

hozn
01-08-2014, 07:05 PM
Hans, we need a bigger chart, top guys are falling off the edge.
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/vng2327/bike%20posts/Screenshot_2014-01-07-19-42-21_zps13000ac2.png

Yeah, maybe we can add some margins/padding. Quite a spread there! Rockin.

hozn
01-08-2014, 07:06 PM
I think it autoscales/autosizes based on the data. (But I'm not sure - just an assumption.)

Yeah, it does :) But it does clip things a bit on the edges; maybe that can be fixed, not sure. It was a fum excuse to play with a bubble chart.

Steve O
01-08-2014, 11:01 PM
I think it's you computer geeks who can help me.

I need the list of all the Saddlers who rode between midnight and 10am on Tuesday. They will receive special recognition at the final happy hour for riding in single digit temps.

Thanks,
Steve

hozn
01-09-2014, 02:54 AM
I think it's you computer geeks who can help me.

I need the list of all the Saddlers who rode between midnight and 10am on Tuesday. They will receive special recognition at the final happy hour for riding in single digit temps.

Thanks,
Steve

Sure, I can get you that list. I know there are a few people that haven't yet signed up (and/or a few about to be subbed in?), so we may want to wait a bit before running that report?

We also track average temperatures for rides (based on start geo for ride and data from wunderground). We store off all of the weather data (hourly observations) that include lots of other info (precipitation, wind speed/direction, etc.) but these don't all get ingested into the database for reports currently. But potential is there to go back and do deeper weather/environmental analysis. Just things for folks to think about.

dbb
01-09-2014, 05:18 AM
I need the list of all the Saddlers who rode between midnight and 10am on Tuesday. They will receive special recognition at the final happy hour for riding in single digit temps.

Is it wise to encourage such behavior? If by "recognition" you mean some form of derision for their (and my) lack of common sense that might work. :)

MattAune
01-09-2014, 07:08 AM
I think it's you computer geeks who can help me.

I need the list of all the Saddlers who rode between midnight and 10am on Tuesday. They will receive special recognition at the final happy hour for riding in single digit temps.

Thanks,
Steve

no love for the people who rode Wednesday morning?

consularrider
01-09-2014, 07:54 AM
no love for the people who rode Wednesday morning?
It was in the double digits when I rolled out (10F according to my backyard weather station), but I do believe it was a couple degrees colder in Annandale and points west.

jrenaut
01-09-2014, 08:21 AM
Sure, I can get you that list. I know there are a few people that haven't yet signed up (and/or a few about to be subbed in?), so we may want to wait a bit before running that report?

We also track average temperatures for rides (based on start geo for ride and data from wunderground). We store off all of the weather data (hourly observations) that include lots of other info (precipitation, wind speed/direction, etc.) but these don't all get ingested into the database for reports currently. But potential is there to go back and do deeper weather/environmental analysis. Just things for folks to think about.
If I ever get a free minute to mess with it, I'd like to play with this data. Also, someone mentioned the links on the front page both went to the same place - I fixed that, so next time you push an update it should show up.

hozn
01-09-2014, 08:24 AM
It was in the double digits when I rolled out (10F according to my backyard weather station), but I do believe it was a couple degrees colder in Annandale and points west.

Yeah, the Garmin read 5-10F on the commute yesterday, but that is factoring in wind. I imagine it was solid double digits officially.

hozn
01-09-2014, 08:29 AM
If I ever get a free minute to mess with it, I'd like to play with this data. Also, someone mentioned the links on the front page both went to the same place - I fixed that, so next time you push an update it should show up.

Thank you! I noticed that yesterday, but did not fix it :) I will push out the update tonight.

Hans

jrenaut
01-09-2014, 08:36 AM
Thank you! I noticed that yesterday, but did not fix it :) I will push out the update tonight.

Hans
I hadn't even noticed it, someone mentioned it here, I think.

Steve O
01-09-2014, 09:42 AM
Sure, I can get you that list. I know there are a few people that haven't yet signed up (and/or a few about to be subbed in?), so we may want to wait a bit before running that report?

We also track average temperatures for rides (based on start geo for ride and data from wunderground). We store off all of the weather data (hourly observations) that include lots of other info (precipitation, wind speed/direction, etc.) but these don't all get ingested into the database for reports currently. But potential is there to go back and do deeper weather/environmental analysis. Just things for folks to think about.

Thanks, Hozn. We can wait, since there is a >0% chance we'll have another arctic blast anyway. I prefer to go with simplicity, though, rather than trying to parse if Rockville was still 9 degrees at 10:43 or something like that. I'll circle back with you in Feb.
Steve

MattAune
01-09-2014, 12:44 PM
It was in the double digits when I rolled out (10F according to my backyard weather station), but I do believe it was a couple degrees colder in Annandale and points west.

You are probably right about it being warmer closer into the city, but it was 7 when I let the house. 5 at Ft. Belvoir, and 8 in Mt. Vernon. So people commuting from the south and west are just more hardcore than the rest.

hozn
01-09-2014, 01:06 PM
You are probably right about it being warmer closer into the city, but it was 7 when I let the house. 5 at Ft. Belvoir, and 8 in Mt. Vernon. So people commuting from the south and west are just more hardcore than the rest.

This is probably an argument for using start location temps to build this list. probably a little data mining needed to get that, but we have the data.

Subby
01-13-2014, 10:21 AM
How do we get credit for Hains Point laps? I have ridden down there a few times but am only seeing credit for one loop.

creadinger
01-13-2014, 10:38 AM
How do we get credit for Hains Point laps? I have ridden down there a few times but am only seeing credit for one loop.

I seem to have the same problem. I rode it at least 2-3 times. I only have credit for one. Is it based on completing a strava segment?

Not a FS problem, but I recently rode up a hill near my house strictly to get on the leaderboard and to gradually improve my time. According to Strava though, I didn't ride the segment, even though my little red line followed the segment detail quite closely.

hozn
01-13-2014, 10:42 AM
How do we get credit for Hains Point laps? I have ridden down there a few times but am only seeing credit for one loop.

This sounds like a bug. It is based on segments, but I thought we were correctly fetching every segment (even if repeated). It's possibly a limitation in the new API, but if you could PM me with an activity ID, I can dig deeper.

MattAune
01-13-2014, 11:08 AM
This sounds like a bug. It is based on segments, but I thought we were correctly fetching every segment (even if repeated). It's possibly a limitation in the new API, but if you could PM me with an activity ID, I can dig deeper.

There is only one segment that should matter. "Hains Point Gate to Gate".

http://www.strava.com/segments/1081507

consularrider
01-13-2014, 11:12 AM
The board has me down for 24 Hains Point laps, I did 26 on January 1 (http://www.strava.com/activities/103309509) and have done a single lap on three occassions since (http://www.strava.com/activities/104747162 on 1/7, http://www.strava.com/activities/104966111 on 1/8, and http://www.strava.com/activities/106002574 on 1/12).

Subby
01-13-2014, 11:26 AM
Here's my ride from this morning where I did a lap: http://app.strava.com/activities/106074052

Obviously no rush - only when you have time to take a peek.

creadinger
01-13-2014, 11:37 AM
Obviously no rush - only when you have time to take a peek.

Sheeeeeessshhh... what are we paying him for if he's gonna take his time on this? Oh, whoops..... :)

americancyclo
01-13-2014, 11:50 AM
There is only one segment that should matter. "Hains Point Gate to Gate".

http://www.strava.com/segments/1081507

I thought last year the HP laps were based off:
The East Potomac Park Loop

http://www.strava.com/segments/614873

MattAune
01-13-2014, 12:17 PM
I thought last year the HP laps were based off:
The East Potomac Park Loop

http://www.strava.com/segments/614873

Which would work fine by me (as I prefer not to salmon E Bason or ride sidewalks), but it would not give credit for people extending their commute by entering the tennis court side and departing the Potomac side. Or people who rent a CaBi and starting from the parking lot.

Edit. It would in fact not give credit for anyone entering and exiting the Anacostia side even though they did a full lap, no?

dkel
01-13-2014, 12:24 PM
Not a FS problem, but I recently rode up a hill near my house strictly to get on the leaderboard and to gradually improve my time. According to Strava though, I didn't ride the segment, even though my little red line followed the segment detail quite closely.

I experienced this recently. I think I figured out that if you have a "privacy zone" set, and it includes some or all of a segment, you won't register as having done the segment. I turned off my privacy zone, and immediately appeared on the leaderboard for a segment near my house.

creadinger
01-13-2014, 12:25 PM
I thought last year the HP laps were based off:
The East Potomac Park Loop

http://www.strava.com/segments/614873

There is a difference in how I did my 2 laps - 1 counted, the other not.

The one that counted I came down the Potomac side from the George Mason memorial, did a lap, then exited the Washington Channel side. The lap that did not count I came down the W. Channel side, did a lap and exited back the same way on the W. Channel side.

If you zoom in on this segment, it seems like doing a lap by NOT coming down the Potomac side, might not register because it starts from too far away from that intersection no?

creadinger
01-13-2014, 12:27 PM
I experienced this recently. I think I figured out that if you have a "privacy zone" set, and it includes some or all of a segment, you won't register as having done the segment. I turned off my privacy zone, and immediately appeared on the leaderboard for a segment near my house.

Is this a thinly veiled attempt to figure out where I live so you can put dog poo on my door step? You're probably right, I think this has been mentioned before in fact. Thanks for the tip!

dkel
01-13-2014, 12:33 PM
Is this a thinly veiled attempt to figure out where I live so you can put dog poo on my door step?

If it is, you can easily reciprocate, now that my privacy zone is off, too. I noticed recently that the parking lot at my office is long enough and circuitous enough that a single privacy zone at my work address wasn't enough to cover my travel through the lot. The whole privacy zone thing is a good idea, but as someone pointed out (I think on this thread), if you want to find me, it's not that hard to look me up in the phone book, based on the info already available from Strava.

Subby
01-13-2014, 12:51 PM
but it would not give credit for people extending their commute by entering the tennis court side and departing the Potomac side
If we just do the gate to gate segment then we'll get everyone. I usually only do the commute extension via 14th street bridge\Basin Dr. salmon\sidewalk.

MattAune
01-13-2014, 01:10 PM
If we just do the gate to gate segment then we'll get everyone. I usually only do the commute extension via 14th street bridge\Basin Dr. salmon\sidewalk.

except for the cheaters who cut through the parking lot at the point. why do you hate cheaters.

Subby
01-13-2014, 01:19 PM
except for the cheaters who cut through the parking lot at the point. why do you hate cheaters.
They will probably get eaten by rabid foxes, so it's okay.

consularrider
01-13-2014, 01:21 PM
They will probably get eaten by rabid foxes, so it's okay.
No, the foxes are closer to the restrooms further up the Potomac side. ;)

creadinger
01-13-2014, 05:14 PM
No, the foxes are closer to the restrooms further up the Potomac side. ;)

And guess where I saw a fox, not more than 1 hour ago? Near the restrooms halfway up the Potomac side. Wow, great timing for your post!

Rod Smith
01-13-2014, 05:54 PM
Freezing Saddles shouldn't be biased towards Virginians. I'm coming from the north, I approach Hains Point from 15th Street, not the 14th Street Bridge. Please use the Gate to Gate segment. If I ride a lap that starts and finishes on the channel side I'll get zilch if you use the segment that begins and ends on the river side.

hozn
01-13-2014, 06:35 PM
Gate-to-gate sounds like the right segment (it might be the one we are using, I will check when I dig into this segment tracking problem)

hozn
01-13-2014, 08:57 PM
The board has me down for 24 Hains Point laps, I did 26 on January 1 (http://www.strava.com/activities/103309509) and have done a single lap on three occassions since (http://www.strava.com/activities/104747162 on 1/7, http://www.strava.com/activities/104966111 on 1/8, and http://www.strava.com/activities/106002574 on 1/12).

So, I confirmed that indeed the segment that is being used is "Hains Point (gate to gate)" (http://www.strava.com/segments/1081507). And indeed, there was a bug in the code -- well, Strava changed their API (as they threatened they may do from time to time during this "beta" phase) and it broke the ride segment fetching/writing code. So ride segments haven't been working for awhile, which is why only the old rides (e.g. Jan 1) were showing up here. I'd been seeing these errors (they get emailed to me) and had it on my list to investigate, but just hadn't quite made time for it yet :)

I'm re-running the daily sync by hand right now to confirm no more errors. It's looking good, so I imagine that in 20 minutes or so everything will be as it should.

peterw_diy
01-13-2014, 09:13 PM
We also track average temperatures for rides (based on start geo for ride and data from wunderground). We store off all of the weather data (hourly observations) that include lots of other info (precipitation, wind speed/direction, etc.) but these don't all get ingested into the database for reports currently. But potential is there to go back and do deeper weather/environmental analysis. Just things for folks to think about.

Of course this doesn't work for those of us using manual data entry. IMO it would be nice if I could tag a manual ride with rough geo data like #zip22314 to have bafs properly pull atmospheric data. FWIW I am now pretty much only using the phone app if it's a non-standard route and I therefore don't know what the mileage will be. Or a #kidical hill. Otherwise especially when it's really cold, it's not worth the trouble of fumbling with my phone, and I just use the annoying Strava manual upload feature when I have a couple spare minutes.

Thanks for all your work.

hozn
01-14-2014, 04:21 AM
Of course this doesn't work for those of us using manual data entry. [...] FWIW I am now pretty much only using the phone app if it's a non-standard route and I therefore don't know what the mileage will be.

This sounds like a self-inflicted problem :-) Yes, I think it has always been clear that manual rides will count for the overall competition, but they will be excluded from any pointless prizes that have a geographic data component. Or a specific temporal component. In my experience manual rides just add noise to this data -- e.g. many manual rides last year had no specific start time, so they had to be excluded from questions like "rides after 10pm and before 2am" (they were all marked as being at midnight).

Anyway, what you are proposing would be a significant change to how geographic and weather data is handled, which seems unnecessary since (1) these are just-for-fun and not the main competition and (2) I believe everyone has access to geo recording devices anyway - so the only ride disqualifications are happening voluntarily or by accident (e.g. device malfunction or forgetfulness, which happens to everyone).

americancyclo
01-14-2014, 07:01 AM
If I ride a lap that starts and finishes on the channel side I'll get zilch if you use the segment that begins and ends on the river side.
Aren't we supposed to be encouraging people to ride just a bit further :p

So this means that I can come in on the DC side, leave on the VA side and continue home, without ever completing a full lap.

Awesome!

americancyclo
01-14-2014, 07:03 AM
Does anyone else see last initials disappearing and reappearing on the individual text leader board?

rcannon100
01-14-2014, 07:24 AM
Freezing Saddles shouldn't be biased towards Virginians.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111212025748/powerpuff/images/7/76/Buttercup_Sticking_Her_Tongue_Out_PPG.jpg

dkel
01-14-2014, 07:34 AM
Does anyone else see last initials disappearing and reappearing on the individual text leader board?

I've seen this, too. I can't seem to reproduce the effect at the moment, but I know a page refresh always fixes it when it happens.

peterw_diy
01-14-2014, 07:39 AM
In my experience manual rides just add noise to this data -- e.g. many manual rides last year had no specific start time, so they had to be excluded from questions like "rides after 10pm and before 2am" (they were all marked as being at midnight

That's user error -- Strava.com's manual upload UI defaults to midnight. Strava.com won't accept any activity without start and end times (the manual UI demands start date, start time, and duration).

Strava.com also requires a textual location and seems to default to the athlete's home address, so it could/should already have an approximate geocoordinate for the start (I recall the athlete profile editing UI showing signs of using geocoding to validate the profile textual address).

consularrider
01-14-2014, 07:45 AM
And guess where I saw a fox, not more than 1 hour ago? Near the restrooms halfway up the Potomac side. Wow, great timing for your post!
Of course last night the fox was crossing the road as it turns near the tip of Hains Point.

hozn
01-14-2014, 08:04 AM
Does anyone else see last initials disappearing and reappearing on the individual text leader board?

Ha, that's funny. I assume this is because the "disambiguation" routine (that decides that "Chris R" should be "Chris Re" or "Chris Ra" happens after the athlete sync). You're probably catching it after it has populated the athletes, but before it has fixed the display names.

Now that things have settled down a bit (and people aren't signing up every few minutes), I'm going to change the athlete sync to run less frequently -- maybe daily.

consularrider
01-14-2014, 08:08 AM
Interesting to see that Team 2 Sloppy Seconds is one point ahead of Team 9 from Outer Space and Lucky 7 Samuri Sandbags is just 51 points back. I think it's great that two weeks into the fun we have such close numbers.

dkel
01-14-2014, 09:15 AM
Interesting to see that Team 2 Sloppy Seconds is one point ahead of Team 9 from Outer Space and Lucky 7 Samuri Sandbags is just 51 points back. I think it's great that two weeks into the fun we have such close numbers.

I agree (except I'd rather see TEAM 7 on top all the time!).

Vicegrip
01-14-2014, 09:35 AM
Also is showing that he number of active riders per team and rides is as important as miles. (Duh)

americancyclo
01-14-2014, 10:09 AM
Ha, that's funny.
Now that things have settled down a bit (and people aren't signing up every few minutes), I'm going to change the athlete sync to run less frequently -- maybe daily.

I got all excited about my spot on the leaderboard, and then I remembered I wasn't the only Shawn. and also that he rides farther and more frequently than I do. and that I melt in the rain.

Rod Smith
01-14-2014, 07:01 PM
Aren't we supposed to be encouraging people to ride just a bit further :p

So this means that I can come in on the DC side, leave on the VA side and continue home, without ever completing a full lap.

Awesome!

..or if Matt from Real Courier calls while you're spinning your wheels going nowhere and asks if you can haul two boxes from 900 7th to FEC on a rush, you can jump on the access road to 395 take the sidewalk over the Case Bridge to L'Enfant Plaza to Independence to 7th, knock it out, then haul butt to State for your 3pm double rush sched and get there with seconds to spare. :)

Subby
01-14-2014, 08:53 PM
Of course this doesn't work for those of us using manual data entry. IMO it would be nice if I could tag a manual ride with rough geo data like #zip22314 to have bafs properly pull atmospheric data. FWIW I am now pretty much only using the phone app if it's a non-standard route and I therefore don't know what the mileage will be. Or a #kidical hill. Otherwise especially when it's really cold, it's not worth the trouble of fumbling with my phone, and I just use the annoying Strava manual upload feature when I have a couple spare minutes.

Thanks for all your work.
I put on my left hand glove, then start strava, then put my phone in my back pocket, then put on my right hand glove, then ride.

Way easier than manual data entry.

dkel
01-14-2014, 09:13 PM
I put on both gloves, then start my phone and Strava with my nose. Yes, I trained my iPhone 5s to recognize my nose print.


Ok, not really.

cvcalhoun
01-15-2014, 01:29 AM
I don't typically need to use my phone for entering rides, since I have a Garmin. However, when I have needed to use the phone for that purpose, I've put it in a cradle that attaches to my handlebars. That way I can use it for:


Entering rides.
GPS navigation.
Knowing when my phone is ringing, so I can pull over and answer it.
Seeing when text messages and e-mails come in, so I can check them at the next stop.


The one I use is the Delta Smartphone Holder (http://www.amazon.com/Handlebar-DELTA-SMART-PHONE-HOLDER/dp/B00720JXAO), but similar holders are available for other types of phones.


I put on my left hand glove, then start strava, then put my phone in my back pocket, then put on my right hand glove, then ride.

Way easier than manual data entry.

dcv
01-16-2014, 07:42 AM
I love this chart, reminds me of a star comparsion chart. Hans - can you animate this starting from Jan 1? That would be so cool.
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/vng2327/bike%20posts/bafs-140116am_zps7e5ddc64.jpg

Rod Smith
01-16-2014, 08:35 AM
red dwarf

hozn
01-16-2014, 09:25 AM
I love this chart, reminds me of a star comparsion chart. Hans - can you animate this starting from Jan 1? That would be so cool.


Thanks! I love that chart too. In general, I think data visualization is fascinating and appreciated the opportunity to deviate beyond a bar chart for this one :) I don't know if Google Charts makes it possible to animate, but I agree that would be awesome. I will look into it.

Vicegrip
01-16-2014, 09:08 PM
I put on both gloves, then start my phone and Strava with my nose. Yes, I trained my iPhone 5s to recognize my nose print.


Ok, not really.I answer my I phone by swiping it with my nose. Too lazy to stop riding and pull a glove off.

dbb
01-17-2014, 05:11 AM
I love this chart, reminds me of a star comparsion chart. Hans - can you animate this starting from Jan 1? That would be so cool.
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/vng2327/bike%20posts/bafs-140116am_zps7e5ddc64.jpg

It appears Dirt should reach the summit of Mt. Everest soon.

MattAune
01-17-2014, 05:53 AM
Hans, do you pull daily precipitation totals? A chart for number of riders vs. daily precipitation would be one I would like to see.

dcv
01-17-2014, 08:58 AM
Dasgeh, whats going on here?

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/vng2327/bike%20posts/bafs-20140107_zps99818e14.jpg

Vicegrip
01-17-2014, 09:13 AM
Been getting high on the bike again?

MattAune
01-17-2014, 09:19 AM
http://www.strava.com/activities/105932356

-2,084.3% grade sounds seriously scary. But the 40k feet of elevation gain in .2 miles sounds like an intense climb.

dbb
01-17-2014, 09:35 AM
Now that's a KOM!

cyclingfool
01-17-2014, 09:59 AM
This must be what happens when you take a GPS on one of these:

4496

Which makes me think this activity should have been tagged #NOBAFS.

It's funny that Strava lets that kind of ridiculous elevation data through w/o question b/c it's from a unit w/ a barometric altimeter, yet its algorithms decrease my elevation gain over one of my standard AM commute routes of around 7.5 miles to zero. (track from an eTrex 20 track w/o altimeter) I mean, that route is flat, but there are overpasses, bridges, and a couple small hills, like 15th St from the Tidal Basin towards Independence along that route, so gain is certainly not zero. Oddly enough, the exact same route recorded on my phone yields 75-100 ft elevation gain after it's processed by Strava.

americancyclo
01-17-2014, 10:09 AM
Thanks! I love that chart too. In general, I think data visualization is fascinating and appreciated the opportunity to deviate beyond a bar chart for this one :) I don't know if Google Charts makes it possible to animate, but I agree that would be awesome. I will look into it.

Google has motion charts!

Mikey
01-17-2014, 10:31 AM
hozn, thanks for all of your hard work.

Not to nit-pick, but I noticed that my score is off 17 days +226 and I have 386 points. Shouldn't that be 396? Did I screw up an entry somewhere?

rcannon100
01-17-2014, 10:35 AM
I think we are going to have to start charging $1 for every request to Honz. We could make him a very rich man.

dbb
01-17-2014, 10:40 AM
I think we are going to have to start charging $1 for every request to Honz. We could make him a very rich man.

Wouldn't that go to buy beer at the awards ceremony?

On a more serious note (yeah sure), I have been trying to come up with a completely off the wall request to make this even more pointless.

dasgeh
01-17-2014, 10:41 AM
hozn, thanks for all of your hard work.

Not to nit-pick, but I noticed that my score is off 17 days +226 and I have 386 points. Shouldn't that be 396? Did I screw up an entry somewhere?

Is it possible you haven't gotten your "day" points for today, but today is counted in the day's tally already? Seems like the most obvious explanation for being off by 10.

vvill
01-17-2014, 10:42 AM
It's funny that Strava lets that kind of ridiculous elevation data through w/o question

Agreed. It happens with distance/speed too occasionally:
http://www.strava.com/activities/99157650

For elevation, there is at least a "correct elevation" button, and rides can be trimmed using Strava.

Mikey
01-17-2014, 10:45 AM
Is it possible you haven't gotten your "day" points for today, but today is counted in the day's tally already? Seems like the most obvious explanation for being off by 10.

Actually I noticed it yesterday when I had exactly 200 miles (easy math). I thought it might be a data caching error or something and that my entry today might fix it. No Joy.

dasgeh
01-17-2014, 10:45 AM
Dasgeh, whats going on here?

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/vng2327/bike%20posts/bafs-20140107_zps99818e14.jpg

My husband has joined the competition. :-)

I have no idea how the data could be so off. The ride in question was on a bike with a Garmin, no less. I'll have to ask the Mr.

BTW, his points will go up soon -- he has a lot of #kidical rides around town from the early days of the month, where he wasn't part of the competition so he didn't Strava them. He'll manual enter though.

dasgeh
01-17-2014, 10:46 AM
Actually I noticed it yesterday when I had exactly 200 miles (easy math). I thought it might be a data caching error or something and that my entry today might fix it. No Joy.

To test my theory, look at someone who hasn't ridden (yet) today. I'm guessing that the algorithm adds the day points at the end of the day, but displays that you've ridden a day as soon as you ride.

Justin Antos
01-17-2014, 10:57 AM
I did some exhaustive and highly sophisticated market segment analysis, and I've concluded this graph divides us neatly into two groups. I added some labels.
4499

jrenaut
01-17-2014, 11:00 AM
Actually I noticed it yesterday when I had exactly 200 miles (easy math). I thought it might be a data caching error or something and that my entry today might fix it. No Joy.
Ha, the reason for this is actually sort of hilarious if you're a math/computer nerd. On January 12th, Strava has you down for riding 0.999972641468048 miles, which is less than 1, so you didn't get your 10 points for that day.

dbb
01-17-2014, 11:01 AM
My husband has joined the competition. :-)

I would suggest he get a one year (lifetime?) ban on route selection for kidical mass, given your concern about the gradients of the routes!

dbb
01-17-2014, 11:07 AM
Ha, the reason for this is actually sort of hilarious if you're a math/computer nerd. On January 12th, Strava has you down for riding 0.999972641468048 miles, which is less than 1, so you didn't get your 10 points for that day.

Rules are rules. Mikey stopped 1 3/4 inches short of a mile and the rules say he should be punished. His failure is clearly obvious. Next time, remove your Garmin in a forward sweeping motion. His wimpering seems to be a Rule 5 violation. Don't the rules include deduction of penalty points for rule violations? Maybe next year.

Strava was clearly developed by people who grew up in the post slide rule era where significant figures stopped mattering.

hozn
01-17-2014, 11:10 AM
Hans, do you pull daily precipitation totals? A chart for number of riders vs. daily precipitation would be one I would like to see.

So, there is the daily riders vs. avg low temperature chart -- which includes that data. I think we could have more total-daily charts, sure. Greg also wants to see distance leaderboards for indiv (and team?). The requests are stacking up :)

hozn
01-17-2014, 11:11 AM
My husband has joined the competition. :-)

I have no idea how the data could be so off. The ride in question was on a bike with a Garmin, no less. I'll have to ask the Mr.

BTW, his points will go up soon -- he has a lot of #kidical rides around town from the early days of the month, where he wasn't part of the competition so he didn't Strava them. He'll manual enter though.

This is hilarious! Maybe Grant can fix that one (using Strava's auto-correct? If that's even a thing anymore?) so it doesn't skew the graph.

hozn
01-17-2014, 11:16 AM
Rules are rules. Mikey stopped 1 3/4 inches short of a mile and the rules say he should be punished. His failure is clearly obvious. Next time, remove your Garmin in a forward sweeping motion. His wimpering seems to be a Rule 5 violation. Don't the rules include deduction of penalty points for rule violations? Maybe next year.

Strava was clearly developed by people who grew up in the post slide rule era where significant figures stopped mattering.

To be fair here, Strava stores this with only a 2-decimal precision, but it is storing meters. We don't truncate the precision or otherwise round the data when converting to miles (we store floats). When we converted that to miles, it fell short. While there may be an argument here to truncate our precision such that we're not more precise than Strava, I'd say that this "counts" (or doesn't count, as the case may be). I wouldn't be fully opposed to rounding, but when we start throwing away data it can pile up. If we round, that also means rounding down, which could be equally confusing for multiple rides not adding up to 1.0 miles. In the end, I'd vote to leave the logic as is but recognize that Mikey might feel cheated of those points.

Vicegrip
01-17-2014, 11:21 AM
http://www.strava.com/activities/105932356

-2,084.3% grade sounds seriously scary. But the 40k feet of elevation gain in .2 miles sounds like an intense climb.must have a triple on the box bike

dbb
01-17-2014, 11:23 AM
To be fair here, Strava stores this with only a 2-decimal precision, but it is storing meters. We don't truncate the precision or otherwise round the data when converting to miles (we store floats). When we converted that to miles, it fell short. While there may be an argument here to truncate our precision such that we're not more precise than Strava, I'd say that this "counts" (or doesn't count, as the case may be). I wouldn't be fully opposed to rounding, but when we start throwing away data it can pile up. If we round, that also means rounding down, which could be equally confusing for multiple rides not adding up to 1.0 miles. In the end, I'd vote to leave the logic as is but recognize that Mikey might feel cheated of those points.

I am completely cool with leaving the logic as is. My obligatory rides were, according to my Garmin, 2.1 miles to eliminate any rounding issues.

Mikey
01-17-2014, 11:43 AM
I am completely cool with leaving the logic as is. My obligatory rides were, according to my Garmin, 2.1 miles to eliminate any rounding issues.

The really funny part is that I've been entering my distances manually.

I guess I need to go back and re-enter it.

Mikey
01-17-2014, 11:49 AM
hozn,

So if I manually entered 1.0 miles in strava, and it converted it to meters, then back to miles as 0.9999. . . then I get scored for <1.0 miles. Not cool. I have an easy fix though. I will enter 1.001 miles for that day in strava.

hozn
01-17-2014, 11:54 AM
hozn,

So if I manually entered 1.0 miles in strava, and it converted it to meters, then back to miles as 0.9999. . . then I get scored for <1.0 miles. Not cool. I have an easy fix though. I will enter 1.001 miles for that day in strava.

Yes, that is what the math says since Strava rounds after converting the data (and we don't).

Doing the conversions in Google illustrates what's going on here:

1.0 miles in meters = 1609.34
1609.34 meters in miles = 0.999998

I agree; it doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd say it's a Strava bug, but we may want to adjust our scoring logic to round to 4 decimal places or something :)

And yes, entering 1.01 miles (or 1.0001) is the fix. I suppose this only affects people manually entering data, since probably those are the only people to actually log rides of exactly 1.00 miles.

jopamora
01-17-2014, 12:02 PM
must have a triple on the box bike

More like a motor

peterw_diy
01-17-2014, 12:04 PM
This is hilarious! Maybe Grant can fix that one (using Strava's auto-correct? If that's even a thing anymore?) so it doesn't skew the graph.

Aw, c'mon, hozn, it's just a little more code to write. If Grant can export data from the Garmin, you just need to iterate over all the data points and query some reputable goedata source to get the surface elevation at each X,Y and fix each point's elevation. Like, this: https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/elevation/

Hmm, I wonder if anybody has bothered to write a cheat app that could take Garmin data and adjust all the points' timestamps. Yes, of course someone has: http://www.digitalepo.com/ Nice name.

BTW, this is a nice geometry reminder. I tend to think of grade % as if it were an angular measure in radians, with 100% being vertical. But, no, a 100% grade is just 45 degrees / 50 radians. Strava shows Grant hitting grades as high as 513%, or 78 degrees. Cool.

hozn
01-17-2014, 12:15 PM
Aw, c'mon, hozn, it's just a little more code to write. If Grant can export data from the Garmin, you just need to iterate over all the data points and query some reputable goedata source to get the surface elevation at each X,Y and fix each point's elevation. Like, this: https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/elevation/

Yes, I believe that is exactly what Strava's "Correct" elevation feature does. I think the granularity of the sources isn't great -- on roads it's probably fine, but off-road riders get screwed out of elevation changes -- or at least, I think that's the case. Typically I think the Garmin data is better -- or at least more consistent. But obviously it can go wrong :)

Mikey
01-17-2014, 12:15 PM
Yes, that is what the math says since Strava rounds after converting the data (and we don't).

Doing the conversions in Google illustrates what's going on here:

1.0 miles in meters = 1609.34
1609.34 meters in miles = 0.999998

I agree; it doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd say it's a Strava bug, but we may want to adjust our scoring logic to round to 4 decimal places or something :)

And yes, entering 1.01 miles (or 1.0001) is the fix. I suppose this only affects people manually entering data, since probably those are the only people to actually log rides of exactly 1.00 miles.

fixed

I was wondering why I never showed up with a sleaze ride. D'oh

ronwalf
01-17-2014, 01:45 PM
I agree; it doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd say it's a Strava bug, but we may want to adjust our scoring logic to round to 4 decimal places or something :)

An easy fix would be to add 1 meter to the strava distance before converting. That should fix any rounding errors, and shouldn't change the point total otherwise.

Amalitza
01-17-2014, 03:22 PM
I suppose this only affects people manually entering data, since probably those are the only people to actually log rides of exactly 1.00 miles.

This is not necessarily true. My grocery store is one mile round trip from my house, give or take a zig-zag through the parking lot. During last year's freezing saddles, one day I rode to the grocery store with the Strava app recording my ride, checked my mileage before turning it off and going inside, noted that Strava said I had ridden 1.0 miles, put away my groceries, etc. However, what Strava actually recorded on my ride was 0.99 miles* I did not get my 10 points until I rode somewhere else later that day. So even if you are using Strava's own app, it is a good idea to make sure you ride at least 1.1 miles, just to be sure.

*well, I mean 0.99 miles is what was displayed on the ride info looking at the web site, not talking about the precision of the actual data that is stored, which I don't know. the ride info is displayed on the web to 2 decimal places but only displayed on the app while recording to one decimal place, which was rounded to 1.0

jrenaut
01-17-2014, 03:47 PM
The only real solution is to ride more.

Rod Smith
01-17-2014, 06:02 PM
Dasgeh, whats going on here?

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/vng2327/bike%20posts/bafs-20140107_zps99818e14.jpg

E-assist. :rolleyes:

Rod Smith
01-17-2014, 06:03 PM
The only real solution is to ride more.

Which she did. :)

Rod Smith
01-17-2014, 06:05 PM
I am completely cool with leaving the logic as is. My obligatory rides were, according to my Garmin, 2.1 miles to eliminate any rounding issues.

That's not gonna help your team in the sleaze ride competition. :confused:

dasgeh
01-17-2014, 06:48 PM
Yes, that is what the math says since Strava rounds after converting the data (and we don't).

Doing the conversions in Google illustrates what's going on here:

1.0 miles in meters = 1609.34
1609.34 meters in miles = 0.999998

I agree; it doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd say it's a Strava bug, but we may want to adjust our scoring logic to round to 4 decimal places or something :)

And yes, entering 1.01 miles (or 1.0001) is the fix. I suppose this only affects people manually entering data, since probably those are the only people to actually log rides of exactly 1.00 miles.

I actually did a sleaze ride yesterday of exactly 1 mile. And I think it's not counting as a "day"

hozn
01-17-2014, 06:56 PM
I am going to fix the code so that we round with the same precision as Strava when storing.

hozn
01-17-2014, 07:17 PM
This is not necessarily true. My grocery store is one mile round trip from my house, give or take a zig-zag through the parking lot. During last year's freezing saddles, one day I rode to the grocery store with the Strava app recording my ride, checked my mileage before turning it off and going inside, noted that Strava said I had ridden 1.0 miles, put away my groceries, etc. However, what Strava actually recorded on my ride was 0.99 miles* I did not get my 10 points until I rode somewhere else later that day. So even if you are using Strava's own app, it is a good idea to make sure you ride at least 1.1 miles, just to be sure.

*well, I mean 0.99 miles is what was displayed on the ride info looking at the web site, not talking about the precision of the actual data that is stored, which I don't know. the ride info is displayed on the web to 2 decimal places but only displayed on the app while recording to one decimal place, which was rounded to 1.0

Good point, yes. Strava rounds in the display too. You are right that the only sure bet is to ride a little more.

I will fix it, though, so at least the Strava website display will be consistent with what we store.

hozn
01-17-2014, 08:31 PM
Ok, folks. We now round to 3 decimal places when we store distance data. This should ensure that if you type "1.0" miles in for distance, it will actually be 1.0 miles in the database. This also means we round down, of course.

The only ride that was affected by this change was a 1.0 mile ride on Jan 12 by Rob O. (Presumably Mikey's rides would also be correct now, if he were to change them back to "1.0" instead of "1.01".)

@dasgeh, your ride yesterday was 1.02 miles and so your point total for yesterday was 11.02 points.

I will give some thought to how we can make the ride totals more transparent on the site so as to prevent confusion or second-guessing about how your rides are being counted (or not). Perhaps something as simple as adding a "points" column to the "People" table would help.