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rcannon100
12-09-2013, 05:39 PM
Consensus:


Freezing Saddles: Winter Bike Challenge
Never Give an ELITE Cyclist an Even Break

Freezing Saddles! The Epic Adventure of a band of ELITE Cyclists, facing the challenges of the wild wild winter bike paths. Confronting the darkest of evenings, the coldest of mornings, and the stupidest of Ninjas - these brave cyclists challenge each other because, if they didnt, they might have to actually do some work during the day.

The saga runs January 1 until the last day of Winter, March 19. There will be a Happy Hour at the end with many pointless trophies.

* Tribes (teams):
** Composed of ~8 riders or less
** For riders from the WABA / Bike Arlington forum
** Volunteer Captains (captains will address any data problems, negotiate or cause confusion, and provide motivational seminars);
* This is a ten-gallon hat tournament. Riders will be randomly assigned to tribes based on self declared average weekly mileage and days cycled. Tribes will be created so that each tribes's average weekly point score is roughly equal to everyone else's. To achieve this, tribes may be composed of differing numbers of riders.
* No late sign ups (this year absolute - I have other things that I will have to be attending to).
* Interested cyclists must sign up by December 24 Midnight - Tribes will be announced within a couple days.
* All rides must be logged by DATE in order to be included
* No sandbagging.
* Communications will be through the forum.

Scoring: Riders will receive 10 points for each day and 1 point for each mile ridden. Minimum ride is 1 mile. The tribe's score will be the sum of the tribe members (indoor trainers do not count- you must be freezing in the saddle outside).

La Strava
* We will honor the "trainer" checkbox in Strava; those rides will be ignored. As will rides with #NoBAFS (case-insensitive) in the ride name.
* Any rides with kiddos on your bike can be tagged in the ride name with #Kidical for a kidically pointless prize.
* In order for rides to be counted, the athletes will need to authorize the Freezing Saddles application to read their Strava data. (Details coming very soon on how to do that.)
* Also, riders will need to be a member of their "tribe" Strava club in order for their rides to count (we'll only be showing riders that are on one of the competition teams) -- and I will need the list of those team IDs for configuring the scoreboard. Of course any recorded rides will be counted retroactively if any of the team captains are late in getting the clubs formed (or late in getting me the ID of the clubs ... or I'm late in updating the app configuration).

Freezing Saddles is a self organized effort of the participants. Freezing Saddles is not sponsored by anyone (it is not sponsored by Bike Arlington or by WABA). There is no organization. It is just a bunch of people coming together to be silly and ride bikes when it is really really cold. Your participation in Freezing Saddles is voluntary and at your own risk and you have not paid anyone anything to participate. Please volunteer to help make this self organized effort succeed.

Be Brave. Be Bold. Be.... questful! In the words of Hedley Lamarr:

Men, you are about to embark on a great crusade to stamp out runaway decency on the bike paths. Now you men will only be risking your lives, whilst I will be risking an almost certain Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actor.

http://www.morethings.com/fan/blazing_saddles/blazing-saddles-665.jpg

dasgeh
12-09-2013, 05:46 PM
And tag any rides with kiddos on your bike as #Kidical for a kidically pointless prize.

hozn
12-09-2013, 07:15 PM
Just a couple of minor backend-related points:
- We will honor the "trainer" checkbox in Strava; those rides will be ignored. As will rides with #NoBAFS (case-insensitive) in the ride name.
- In order for rides to be counted, the athletes will need to authorize the Freezing Saddles application to read their Strava data. (Details coming very soon on how to do that.)
- Also, riders will need to be a member of their "tribe" Strava club in order for their rides to count (we'll only be showing riders that are on one of the competition teams) -- and I will need the list of those team IDs for configuring the scoreboard. Of course any recorded rides will be counted retroactively if any of the team captains are late in getting the clubs formed (or late in getting me the ID of the clubs ... or I'm late in updating the app configuration).

I will also post the rules on the scoreboard website once this is finalized.

Despite not participating this year, I'm really happy to see this is happening again. Thanks! I'm enjoying working on the software and I'm sure I'll be back as a competitor too for the 2015 edition :)

Mikey
12-10-2013, 11:51 AM
Points are 10 per day where at least 1 mile were ridden, and 1pt for each mile during the challenge. If someone were to ride 0.9 miles for 10 days they would still score 9 pts for their total mileage, just no day bonus. Also if you ride two time in a day for 0.5 miles, you still get the dailybonus, plus one point for the mile. Fractions of miles count towards the total.

KLizotte
12-10-2013, 12:18 PM
Many thanks to rcannon and hozn for all your hard work putting this together!

dasgeh
12-11-2013, 04:35 PM
It was suggested to add the reg deadline to the reg page...

Terpfan
12-11-2013, 05:25 PM
Looking forward to it. And will definitely keep posted for the strava instructions since I last used it like oh, a year ago maybe. Shoot maybe I'll do the monthly pay for version if it makes it easier during this time.

KLizotte
12-11-2013, 07:27 PM
Can someone tell me where to find the Freezing Saddles results website? I've registered and given authorization for the website to access my Strava data. I've looked on the forum but can't find the soft launch site. Many thanks!

guga31bb
12-11-2013, 07:41 PM
http://freezingsaddles.com/

KLizotte
12-11-2013, 09:33 PM
Thanks! It's a pretty slick website!!!

cvcalhoun
12-17-2013, 03:25 PM
You might want to provide instructions for how to enter here, with a link for each step. As far as I can make out, to enter you need to:

Register for Strava (http://www.strava.com/register).
Fill out the application form (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M0TulhK4IWXKNPI1qcfRTlJBdeIDljAFtUvWunjNBag/viewform). (Deadline is December 24 Midnight.)
Register for this forum (http://bikearlingtonforum.com/register.php).
Authorize the BikeArlington Freezing Saddles app on Strava (http://freezingsaddles.com/authorize).
Join the BikeArlington club on Strava (http://www.strava.com/clubs/bikearlington).


Bonus link:

Here is the leaderboard (http://freezingsaddles.com).

I've picked up each of these from a different place, and it actually took me quite some time even to find the links for where I did these things again. And apparently I'm not the only one who is confused, as others have for example signed up for the app and not the club on Strava. Any chance of getting one comprehensive list?

rcannon100
12-17-2013, 03:31 PM
FS is a collaborative volunteer effort. If you see something that needs to be done, please feel free to volunteer to do it.

Thanks

B

cvcalhoun
12-17-2013, 04:13 PM
I have added links to my post above, but I have no way to edit the original post in this thread, which is the one in which the information needs to appear.
FS is a collaborative volunteer effort. If you see something that needs to be done, please feel free to volunteer to do it.

Thanks

B

rcannon100
01-03-2014, 04:40 PM
Honz, you have it config'red such that a Sleaze Ride is any ride that equals 11 or 12 points. So - for us to be liberated of the disparagement of having ridden a sleaze ride - we have to have ridden 3 miles? (as opposed to say 2.1 miles). Is that correct sir?

Arlingtonrider
01-03-2014, 04:49 PM
Ouch! (on behalf of non-slackers) I thought the extra points attached at one mile.

rcannon100
01-03-2014, 04:55 PM
Ouch! (on behalf of non-slackers) I thought the extra points attached at one mile.

Yes yes. A 1 mile ride = 11 points. 2 mile ride = 12 points.

But, any ride that is 11 or 12 points gets officially relegated in Honz's coding magic as a "sleaze ride" and the rider is forever shamed with a scarlet letter "S". Not wanting to dishonor Team 9, I made sure to ride 3 miles (in a circle around the neighborhood). But I want to ensure that the fruits of my labor are not wasted. If I merely need to ride 2.1 miles - then that's .9 unnecessary miles.

You see the dilemma.

hozn
01-03-2014, 04:56 PM
Honz, you have it config'red such that a Sleaze Ride is any ride that equals 11 or 12 points. So - for us to be liberated of the disparagement of having ridden a sleaze ride - we have to have ridden 3 miles? (as opposed to say 2.1 miles). Is that correct sir?

We can change it. It was an arbitrary cutoff. I thought it was any ride that was more than one but less than 2 miles. But maybe I did less than 3. I can check.

What should it be?

sjclaeys
01-03-2014, 04:57 PM
Honz, you have it config'red such that a Sleaze Ride is any ride that equals 11 or 12 points. So - for us to be liberated of the disparagement of having ridden a sleaze ride - we have to have ridden 3 miles? (as opposed to say 2.1 miles). Is that correct sir?
My recollection from last year is that the mileage was rounded down to the whole mile. Thus, if you are at 10.8 miles, it is worth going .2 more to get the extra point.

rcannon100
01-03-2014, 05:00 PM
We can change it. It was an arbitrary cutoff. I thought it was any ride that was more than one but less than 2 miles. But maybe I did less than 3. I can check.

What should it be?

Arbitrary, in this game, I believe is a feature. I see no need to change it. I merely want to know how much effort I must waste. Do I need to hit 2.1 miles or 3? :rolleyes: (Three does seem to be a good cut off to officially not be sleaze)

Amalitza
01-03-2014, 05:05 PM
My recollection from last year is that the mileage was rounded down to the whole mile. Thus, if you are at 10.8 miles, it is worth going .2 more to get the extra point.

Mileage is not rounded (unless hozn has changed the accounting from last year). If you ride 10.8 miles today and 10.2 miles tomorrow, you have 21 miles total, not 20. HOWEVER, you only get your 10 daily points if you ride at least one full mile (per day, not per ride). I accidentally rode 0.99miles once last year and I didn't get my ten points for the day until I went out and rode another little bit. It still counts in total mileage, though.

sjclaeys
01-03-2014, 05:09 PM
Mileage is not rounded (unless hozn has changed the accounting from last year). If you ride 10.8 miles today and 10.2 miles tomorrow, you have 21 miles total, not 20. HOWEVER, you only get your 10 daily points if you ride at least one full mile (per day, not per ride). I accidentally rode 0.99miles once last year and I didn't get my ten points for the day until I went out and rode another little bit. It still counts in total mileage, though.

I was referring to points accumulation, not miles. I fairly clearly remember riding say 12.6 miles and getting 22 points.

vvill
01-03-2014, 06:03 PM
I thought both this and last year, 2.5miles would round to 3 and 2.4 to 2 for points.

Which means to avoid a sleaze 2.5 miles is needed. Seems like a decent mileage for days like today, and only a slight extension to a short errand ride.

hozn
01-03-2014, 07:29 PM
Ok, I checked the code. So the way it is coded now (which was intended to match ronwalf's algorithm, but of course we can agree to change) points are not rounded in the database. It is simply X + sum(mileage) where X is 10.0 if sum(mileage) >= 1.0.

I haven't confirmed this, but i believe points are rounded down (truncated) in the display only -- as is mileage (we store much more precise representation than we show). So two 2.5-point days will be 5 points. I don't think there is any rounding in the system except for display.

A sleaze ride (as is only used for that one chart) is one where points > 11.0 and < 12.0 (no rounding happening there). So 1.0 - 2.0 miles should be the only thing that matches. Again, we can adjust.

Hope that helps clarify. Let me know if you see evidence that this explanation is wrong.

peterw_diy
01-03-2014, 08:05 PM
A sleaze ride (as is only used for that one chart) is one where points > 11.0 and < 12.0 (no rounding happening there). So 1.0 - 2.0 miles should be the only thing that matches. Again, we can adjust.

Hope that helps clarify. Let me know if you see evidence that this explanation is wrong.

To clarify: there are not sleaze rides but sleaze days. A sleaze day is any day when a rider put in at least 1 mile but less than 2 miles. Ride exactly 2 miles (even if spread over 10 rides that day) and you'll earn 12 points and avoid being flagged as having a sleaze day. (I'm basing this on https://github.com/hozn/bafs/blob/7d492b9aa7c4379dfae13d2e4b02341c0b53ee0b/bafs/views/chartdata.py#L193.) Team sleaze days follow the same logic (https://github.com/hozn/bafs/blob/7d492b9aa7c4379dfae13d2e4b02341c0b53ee0b/bafs/views/chartdata.py#L221) (individuals riding > 1 mi but < 2 mi in one day).

Ride less than one mile total on a day, and it's not sleaze. Makes sense, since you're not getting the 10 point bonus for < 1 mile/day.

hozn
01-03-2014, 08:07 PM
Yes, that is correct; thanks for the clarification. If it says sleaze "rides" anywhere we should fix that.

peterw_diy
01-03-2014, 08:15 PM
Yes, that is correct; thanks for the clarification. If it says sleaze "rides" anywhere we should fix that.

Nah, at least in the master branch source I only see it being labeled correctly, as sleaze days.

rcannon100
01-03-2014, 08:19 PM
"Sleaze Rides" is what we have been calling it since before BAFS was even formed. It dates back to the National Bike Challenge. The colloquial term is "Sleaze Rides" because you are cheezing points on a cheap ride. It usually involves a pointless ride to nowhere (you know, like riding to work). It is a ride taken for the soul purpose of bogarting those 10 points.

As for the rounding, HONZ, that's how I had remembered it. All ride distance is cumulative. Two rides of 2.5 on different days gets you 5 points (as opposed to 2.5 getting rounded up to 3 x 2 days = 6 points; or as opposed to just losing any distance gained after the decimal).

As far as what is a sleaze ride, I am indifferent, and if you are basing it on what Ron did, then magnificent. I just love that in your data you can measure how many sleaze rides people took - knowing that >2 miles is the magic distance, we know what is expected in order to not be disparaged. The one award I dont want to receive is the one for the most sleaze rides ridden :p

vvill
01-03-2014, 08:31 PM
No rounding/truncating until display - sounds good. Thanks hozn.

3300 metres would probably be rounded to 2.1 miles by Strava, so that's probably the least you can do to avoid the sleaze moniker.

dkel
01-03-2014, 09:01 PM
I came home from work and put in a sleazy 2.4, only to find out it's not sleazy at all! Best day ever! (So relieved that I didn't lose both thumbs to frostbite on a sleaze ride.) (And why were my thumbs the only part of me that was freezing?!?) (I had decent elevation gain, though, which is good.) (Aren't parentheses great?) ((()))(())((()))

peterw_diy
01-03-2014, 09:23 PM
3300 metres would probably be rounded to 2.1 miles by Strava, so that's probably the least you can do to avoid the sleaze moniker.

1) Strava's API gives distance in meters; it's bafs that converts to miles, and from what I see, bafs does not round the numbers deliberately, so it could probably store 3219 m as something like 2.000198839275728 mi

2) You need 2 miles, no more.

Justin Antos
01-03-2014, 10:25 PM
So my bike commute is down to 0.9 miles in, 0.9 miles out. I guess I better do some loop-de-loops to get over 2.0 so every day isn't counted as sleaze for me :).

Hozn, how are runs and walks handled? Okay to put those on Strava and they're excluded?

jopamora
01-03-2014, 10:30 PM
So my bike commute is down to 0.9 miles in, 0.9 miles out. I guess I better do some loop-de-loops to get over 2.0 so every day isn't counted as sleaze for me :).

Hozn, how are runs and walks handled? Okay to put those on Strava and they're excluded?

They reduce your riding miles by a random multiplier.

KLizotte
01-03-2014, 11:01 PM
Calling all Team 4 members. Please join the Strava club (Bollard Busters):

http://www.strava.com/clubs/46225

hozn
01-04-2014, 02:46 AM
1) Strava's API gives distance in meters; it's bafs that converts to miles, and from what I see, bafs does not round the numbers deliberately, so it could probably store 3219 m as something like 2.000198839275728 mi

2) You need 2 miles, no more.

Yes, correct on both. Strava appears to provide 1-decimal precision for their distances in meters too (e.g. 3218.9). But since Strava also adjusts (reduces) Garmin distances, probably better to err on side of slightly over.

hozn
01-04-2014, 02:53 AM
So my bike commute is down to 0.9 miles in, 0.9 miles out. I guess I better do some loop-de-loops to get over 2.0 so every day isn't counted as sleaze for me :).

Hozn, how are runs and walks handled? Okay to put those on Strava and they're excluded?

Yes, we pass over any activities that are not "cycling" type. And any activities marked "trainer" and any with #NoBAFS in the ride title.

hozn
01-04-2014, 02:59 AM
"Sleaze Rides" is what we have been calling it since before BAFS was even formed. It dates back to the National Bike Challenge. The colloquial term is "Sleaze Rides" because you are cheezing points on a cheap ride. It usually involves a pointless ride to nowhere (you know, like riding to work). It is a ride taken for the soul purpose of bogarting those 10 points.

So the important distinction here is we are not counting a day of, say, 10 1.4 mile rides as a day where the user "earned" 10 sleaze rides. Only on a day when the ride(s) total less than 2.0 miles, but more than 1.0 does the sleaze counter increment. So this is why it is worth saying that we measure "sleaze days", though in practice we probably expect that sleaze days are a single 1.0-2.0-mile ride.

Sorry, not trying to beat a dead horse, just want to make sure there is no ambiguity before someone wins that one.

rcannon100
01-04-2014, 08:15 AM
I dont know what a "sleaze day" is. There is no such thing in our game. I think the introduction of a new term by someone who is not part of the game caused confusion

In a day

If you ride < 1 mile, all you get is that distance added to your total distance.

If you ride > 1 mile, you get distanced + 10 points

If you ride more than 1 but less than 2 miles, this is labeled as a "sleaze ride" by the code, which counts the number of days someone goes for a "sleaze ride." This label has no importance other than it gets measured. There may be a pointless prize for the most sleaze rides.

A "sleaze ride" is a short ride taken for the purpose of getting the 10 points and in all likelihood it is just a participant going around the block for a sufficient distance to get the points.

hozn
01-04-2014, 08:51 AM
Ok, well we can adjust the definition to be a 1-2-mile ride when that is the only ride of the day. That is a bit different than what we are doing now -- though likely the results will be very similar. That might be better, though, as it would exclude folks like Justin who are commuting short distances (but doing multiple rides).

Ok, I will make that change once I figure out the SQL.

peterw_diy
01-04-2014, 09:06 AM
Is it worth the trouble? It's not like it would be difficult to break a 1.1 mile ride in half either by manually entering the info as two activities or using the app's Finish button mid-ride.

My shortest grocery route is 1.9 round trip. With this proposed change, I'd only need treat There and Back separately (Finish/Record rather than Stop/Resume). Doesn't seem right, especially since it means more work on your part. Better to invent me to take the scenic route and get a wee bit more saddle time.

Rod Smith
01-04-2014, 09:43 AM
Breaking your 1.9 mile ride into two 0.95 mile segments to avoid scoring a "sleaze ride" is extra sleazy.

Arlingtonrider
01-04-2014, 09:58 AM
A "sleaze ride" is a short ride taken for the purpose of getting the 10 points and in all likelihood it is just a part icipant going around the block for a sufficient distance to get the points.

That might be true for some people, but I think that for many it is incentive to get into the habit of using their bikes to get to the grocery store, library, coffee shop, etc. in areas where many useful businesses are nearby. I like the fact that this contest encourages people to use their bikes for more purposes.

peterw_diy
01-04-2014, 09:58 AM
Breaking your 1.9 mile ride into two 0.95 mile segments to avoid scoring a "sleaze ride" is extra sleazy.
If done to game bafs, yes. Calling it one ride if I spend 45 minute shopping also seems weird. Isn't the point to encourage folks to ride?

ShawnoftheDread
01-04-2014, 11:48 AM
A "sleaze ride" is a short ride taken for the purpose of getting the 10 points and in all likelihood it is just a participant going around the block for a sufficient distance to get the points.

That's just called consistency and it's very Pro.

hozn
01-04-2014, 12:12 PM
Ok, we will leave it alone. There really isn't any shame in sleaze rides :) the contest is setup to reward those that jump on the bike daily, which is a good thing.

Ok, I am off to tow my kid in the trailer to a sledding hill!

Rod Smith
01-04-2014, 03:47 PM
If done to game bafs, yes. Calling it one ride if I spend 45 minute shopping also seems weird. Isn't the point to encourage folks to ride?

Sure. I wasn't trying to put you down. I agree with you, Kathy and Hans, about the point of the contest and why there is a bonus ten points for every day that you ride. If someone's too busy for a longer ride, a short one to put some points on the board should be appreciated by his or her teammates. And if you're grocery shopping by bike, you rock!

americancyclo
01-04-2014, 04:28 PM
Personally, I'm aiming for sleaze rides, since I live less than a mile from the metro, and there are some days that I need the nap on the way home. On days I metro, I usually total 1.6 miles. No shame in that for me!

rcannon100
01-04-2014, 05:01 PM
Isn't the point to encourage folks to ride?

The rules were created by consensus months ago. The rules are not changing at this point (except by consensus - probably through the captains).

There is no point. Seriously. This is a self organized spoof among friends who ride a lot. It is our way of laughing and having fun. Freezing Saddles is not sponsored by anyone. It does not have a purpose. It does not have a mission. It is us having fun.

We call it a sleaze ride because we have made our own rules, and then we are gaming our own rules. It is a way of laughing at ourselves. We have create a game that has no real point, has no real prizes, has no real meaning - and then we are laughing and taking it all serious for no point other than we like each others company and comradery. The term "sleaze ride" is just a laugh at and by those of us who love to cycle.

ShawnoftheDread
01-04-2014, 05:48 PM
If you do a sleaze ride, you will be harassed. But you'll be harassed more if you skip a day. If you boast about not missing a day, you will be harassed even more.

Arlingtonrider
01-04-2014, 06:18 PM
My concern was that we not change the point system. I have no problem with being sleazy! :)

dbb
01-04-2014, 06:40 PM
I have no problem with being sleazy! :)

I'll drink to that!

cvcalhoun
01-04-2014, 06:52 PM
I'm announcing in advance my intention to be sleazy! I accurately stated when I joined this contest that I normally ride only two days a week, for a total of about 30 miles a week. The other five days, I normally go to the gym, which is about 2/3 of a mile from me. While I simply do not have the time to go on a long ride every day, I figure I can do a lot for my team's points if I just start biking instead of driving to the gym. So, I'm not going to avoid sleaze rides, but will not object to random trash talk. To paraphrase Patrick Henry, "If this be sleazy, make the most of it!"

DismalScientist
01-04-2014, 08:01 PM
I don't think sleaze is really meant as term of derision.

As for the trash talk, I blame Mr Cannon for not including the question "How crazy are you?"

rcannon100
01-04-2014, 08:50 PM
"How crazy are you?"

Well, doctor, I was born at a very young age....

.... and I have these friends. Their names?? Well their names are Dismal, and Dread, and Dirt, and AmericanCyclo....

.... and I ride laps around Hains Point....

.... and I would rather be riding down the MVT in a blizzard than in one of those damn, four wheeled sofa tin cans with heat and tunes...

... and one of our patron saints is "Crazy Ivan"...

... and I like spandex...

... and I spent more time this weekend cleaning my bicycle chain than talking to my teenager....

DismalScientist
01-04-2014, 08:53 PM
Why would you talk to your teenager?

rcannon100
01-04-2014, 08:54 PM
To paraphrase Patrick Henry, "If this be sleazy, make the most of it!"

That's not sleazy.... THIS! This is sleazy ->

4412

rcannon100
01-04-2014, 09:10 PM
You are missing bilsko, vvill and JAntos.

Some names are inherently more suspicious then others :rolleyes:

ShawnoftheDread
01-04-2014, 09:21 PM
... and I spent more time this weekend cleaning my bicycle chain than talking to my teenager....

Of course. Chains are more responsive than teenagers.

Fast Friendly Guy
01-04-2014, 09:34 PM
Of course. Chains are more responsive than teenagers.

...and less greasy

dasgeh
01-05-2014, 01:30 PM
My shortest grocery route is 1.9 round trip. With this proposed change, I'd only need treat There and Back separately (Finish/Record rather than Stop/Resume). Doesn't seem right, especially since it means more work on your part. Better to invent me to take the scenic route and get a wee bit more saddle time.

But it's not a sleaze ride if it's errands. Strava told me so. http://www.strava.com/activities/104000897

jrenaut
01-05-2014, 02:32 PM
But it's not a sleaze ride if it's errands. Strava told me so. http://www.strava.com/activities/104000897
Exactly.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5524/11782242733_30bf5c11d6.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thetejon/11782242733/)
It's not a Freezing Saddles &quot;sleaze ride&quot; if you drag this up a big hill (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thetejon/11782242733/) by thetejon (http://www.flickr.com/people/thetejon/), on Flickr

Vicegrip
01-05-2014, 03:13 PM
...and less greasy
And far more useful.