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pfunkallstar
04-17-2012, 09:55 AM
This morning I was riding down the Custis trail - GLORIOUS DAY BTW - and was passing a woman in her mid twenties. I gave my customary "On your left!" moved to the left lane and passed without incident - my voice is one part bullhorn, two parts foghorn, zero parts leghorn. About two seconds later the woman explodes in a cloud of anger, "Thanks a lot A$$hole, stupid, f@#k!" and so on.

Now normally I just let angry people be angry, it is a GLORIOUS DAY (did anyone see that freaking sun!), but today I slowed down and went back to see what was unhinging this otherwise seemingly hinged woman.

I pulled up and said:

Me: Sorry, I said "On your left."
Lady: Well it was just so quiet and then you cut over and just whizzed by.
Me: (Pointing to headphones) Did you have you headphones on?
Lady: You are so f#$king smart, you think you are so smart! I didn't have any music on. You know I'm a biker too! Why don't you try walking!?!

I loved this last bit - "Well I have _________ friends too!"

At this point I just smiled and rolled away as she went off on another outing into crazy land - let angry people be miserable angry people on glorious days.

jabberwocky
04-17-2012, 10:15 AM
I've had that happen a lot over the years. Using a bell helps, but honestly, if I see headphone cords these days I don't even bother giving a warning. If they really wanted to hear whats going on around them, they wouldn't be wearing fricking headphones. :rolleyes:

consularrider
04-17-2012, 10:17 AM
Sounds like an encounter I had with a dog walker last year in Bluemont Park, I had rung my bell, but that wasn't good enough for him. I still see him several days a week on my commute, but he hasn't exploded again.

CCrew
04-17-2012, 10:18 AM
if I see headphone cords these days I don't even bother giving a warning. If they really wanted to hear whats going on around them, they wouldn't be wearing fricking headphones. :rolleyes:

+ 1 there. Figure if they want to blot out their surroundings it includes me.

Tim Kelley
04-17-2012, 10:22 AM
When I'm pretending to be a runner on the trails, I listen to music/podcasts at a low enough volume that I can hear approaching cyclists who call their passes. I generally give a little wave with my left hand to acknowledge that I've heard the call.

So while some runners have the headphones too loud, there are many others who appreciate the warning.

jrenaut
04-17-2012, 10:28 AM
When I'm pretending to be a runner on the trails, I listen to music/podcasts at a low enough volume that I can hear approaching cyclists who call their passes. I generally give a little wave with my left hand to acknowledge that I've heard the call.

So while some runners have the headphones too loud, there are many others who appreciate the warning.
Perhaps I've been lucky, but most of the joggers I pass either totally ignore me (which is fine) or give a little wave, which I appreciate. A couple get off the path, which I think is silly, but whatever. I always figure I'd rather give tons of warnings to people who won't hear them than hit one person.

americancyclo
04-17-2012, 10:29 AM
I walk a section of the W&OD in Falls Church nearly every day to get my daughter. I never wear headphones, although when it's cold, I do put the hood up. Calling passes happens a fair amount, but not nearly 100%. I try my best when on a bike to call my passes, and I definitely appreciate it when I'm not biking, even more so if I'm pushing a stroller.

creadinger
04-17-2012, 10:30 AM
I haven't had anyone go off on me, but I'm sure it's coming... I probably call many of my passes too quietly, but part of the problem is the area near Gravelly point with the airport, the highway, and usually wind drowning out pretty much everything but yelling. In that area would peds prefer I scream at them as I pass, or do they assume that with all the noise it's not likely they'll be able to hear normal voices?

zanna_leigh
04-17-2012, 10:37 AM
So while some runners have the headphones too loud, there are many others who appreciate the warning.

I notice more people acknowledge the warning on the Custis than on the W&OD/Mt Vernon. I have had people actually say "thank you" when I announce that I'm passing on the Custis, even while they're running.

consularrider
04-17-2012, 10:46 AM
I do appreciate the a runner/walker's acknowledgement of my bell or "passing on your left," especially when it comes from someone two or three up from the first person I'm passing. This morning the Army was doing PT, 40 to 50 runners, from the Gravelly Point parking lot to the 14th St Bridge cutoff and back, I think it's their one mile course. I didn't ring for everyone, but maybe about every five or six, or for a new cluster. One thing about that group is that none of them are using earbuds! :D

Arlingtonrider
04-17-2012, 11:15 AM
Wow. Sorry to hear you encountered someone like that! I sometimes listen to music, but keep the volume turned way down low. (yeah - I know, I used to be totally anti-headphone.). I also try to thank everyone who calls their passes.
Please don't stop calling passes just because you see headphones. I can easily hear you very easily.

DaveK
04-17-2012, 11:32 AM
This morning the Army was doing PT, 40 to 50 runners, from the Gravelly Point parking lot to the 14th St Bridge cutoff and back, I think it's their one mile course. I didn't ring for everyone, but maybe about every five or six, or for a new cluster. One thing about that group is that none of them are using earbuds! :D

That group is pretty good at holding a line, too. :)

creadinger
04-17-2012, 11:38 AM
This morning the Army was doing PT, 40 to 50 runners, from the Gravelly Point parking lot to the 14th St Bridge cutoff and back, I think it's their one mile course. I didn't ring for everyone, but maybe about every five or six, or for a new cluster. One thing about that group is that none of them are using earbuds! :D

I passed them this morning too. Aside from the sheer numbers, they were relatively easy to get around.... Were you at all surprised at how difficult a 2 mile run was for these guys? I thought the Army were supposed to be in pretty good shape? Even the Pentagon ones. I work with a small group of Navy folks and I think they're in much better shape than the Army folks.

JeffC
04-17-2012, 12:54 PM
After 5 years of regular commuting, I have gotten into a habit of announcing my intention to pass each and every time. Since I am slow, it is usually peds, not bikers I pass. The typical response is nothing, then less frequently the acknowledgement waive. I appreciate those that waive, it tends to the be the hardcore runners who stick far to the right that get the need for this. In my experience, the start of spring brings the kind of casual minded, inattentive peds who lack situational awareness and don't understand that sometimes at narrow spots, blind turns, and steep slopes where bikes might have to pass abreast peds need to be alert.

The more aloof and distracted peds are and especially when they are in the middle of the trail, the louder is my warning. A few times, maybe once a year, I have had peds get hostile with me. I can only hope that startling these people out of their complacency may force them off the trail. There are plenty of places to walk in a distracted, inattentive manner without creating dangers for others. I still am befuddled as to why North Arlingtonians find the Custis an attractive place to walk at evening rush hour.

pfunkallstar
04-17-2012, 01:00 PM
After 5 years of regular commuting, I have gotten into a habit of announcing my intention to pass each and every time. Since I am slow, it is usually peds, not bikers I pass. The typical response is nothing, then less frequently the acknowledgement waive. I appreciate those that waive, it tends to the be the hardcore runners who stick far to the right that get the need for this. In my experience, the start of spring brings the kind of casual minded, inattentive peds who lack situational awareness and don't understand that sometimes at narrow spots, blind turns, and steep slopes where bikes might have to pass abreast peds need to be alert.

The more aloof and distracted peds are and especially when they are in the middle of the trail, the louder is my warning. A few times, maybe once a year, I have had peds get hostile with me. I can only hope that startling these people out of their complacency may force them off the trail. There are plenty of places to walk in a distracted, inattentive manner without creating dangers for others. I still am befuddled as to why North Arlingtonians find the Custis an attractive place to walk at evening rush hour.

I never try to startle anyone but it is a fine balance. One second an 18-wheeler is going by and your are screaming "ON YOUR LEFT" and then it gets absurdly quiet and the ped/runner thinks that you are being an ass.

vvill
04-17-2012, 01:12 PM
I never try to startle anyone but it is a fine balance.

Agreed. Generally if there is not much trail traffic and the pedestrian/runner is going slow and steady I will go as far left as possible and just ride past. I'll call or use my bell otherwise. With cyclists I'm still not sure. I passed someone mashing really slowly on a Custis hill one time and got a "call your pass!" or similar but there was no one else around and I passed well clear from them. Often I will call for cyclists and get zero acknowledgment. And of course I've been passed with no call many times - which I don't mind except when it's a group of 3+ pacelining downhill.

JeffC
04-17-2012, 01:31 PM
Agreed. Generally if there is not much trail traffic and the pedestrian/runner is going slow and steady I will go as far left as possible and just ride past. I'll call or use my bell otherwise. With cyclists I'm still not sure. I passed someone mashing really slowly on a Custis hill one time and got a "call your pass!" or similar but there was no one else around and I passed well clear from them. Often I will call for cyclists and get zero acknowledgment. And of course I've been passed with no call many times - which I don't mind except when it's a group of 3+ pacelining downhill.

To be clear, I don't mean "startle" as in giving somebody a heart attack but more startle as to make somebody running in the middle of the trail be aware they are on a shared path and cannot meander like they have consumed a six pack.

LOL, the slow masher was probably me. What's wrong with saying you are passing every time? As has been stated here many times, the Custis has parts in poor conditions and is treated as a de facto one lane trail in certain locations with many riders veering in the other lane to avoid rutted spots. Maybe the other biker sees something like glass or debris or something ahead that somebody coming up behind does not, maybe the other biker is going to turn but is too lazy to signal and does not think anybody is behind them. Even if the trail appears clear to you, it might not be to somebody with better visibility, nothing wrong with saying you are passing and lots of good reasons to do so so, this coming from somebody who gets passed a lot.

Dirt
04-17-2012, 01:36 PM
Generally I've found that things have improved on the trails a lot over the last year or two. It seemed to me that I had close calls or serious mishaps with people almost every week in years past. I've really only had 1 or 2 in the last year and those get chalked up to "we all make mistakes now and then".

That said, when I see headphones, I usually make really weird and not expected noises, instead of just saying "on your left!". I've talked about psycho babble singing as my favorite alert. Other things do too. Oddly enough, people seem to get out of the way when they hear me say, "I'm not going back to prison!!!" or "We're all gonna die!!!". Don't know why, but those two seem to work pretty well.

I've had bad luck with bells. People hear it, but many are startled by it and behave unpredictably.

Tim Kelley
04-17-2012, 01:38 PM
As has been stated here many times, the Custis has parts in poor conditions and is treated as a de facto one lane trail in certain locations with many riders veering in the other lane to avoid rutted spots.

Let's get this knocked out. Where specifically does the Custis need attention? I've start a thread here: http://bikearlingtonforum.com/showthread.php?2105-Custis-Trail-Needs-Work&p=18276#post18276

rcannon100
04-17-2012, 01:46 PM
My experience with hostility is small but consistent. Spending a lot of time on the trail, it does not happen often - but when it does happen, it is hostile. Both on the Custis and the MVT I have had people go absolutely ballistic. My usual read is that they were in a bad mood anyway and they want something to take it out on.

Contrary to Dirt, I use a bell and find I get the best response (your experience may differ, please consult a mortician if taken internally). I find that if I say something, noobs and tourists will instinctively turn toward me in response - meaning to their left into the trail. With the bell, I find most people step to the right and do not respond to it as if someone is talking to them.

I always ring. It's better if its a habit. Dont think about it. Dont make a decision "do I signal or not signal." Just signal. Make it a habit. The good people will hear you. The haters - well who cares.

And then of course I have an exception. Kids. If their are small kids anywhere near, I usually run silent - and try to move far away from them. I find that if I make any noise at all, they will move toward me. I slow down - and even go off the trail - to give them a wide berth.

The haters are a small but consistent group. Have learned to simply ignore them. They are their own worse karma.

KLizotte
04-17-2012, 02:03 PM
I wonder if calling "stay to your right please" and ringing a bell is better for peds that are obviously tourists, esp if one is biking on the glorified sidewalks that they call trails around here. I'm thinking of areas around the Nat'l Mall in particular. I surmise people would respond better to a command than having to digest what "on your left" means and acting accordingly within a matter of seconds.

dasgeh
04-17-2012, 02:11 PM
Personally, I always call passes, generally saying "passing" but sometimes "on your left". I agree with assertion that the folks that go ballistic are just going to go ballistic -- bad day, bad attitude, bad shoes -- whatever reason. Can't let them impact your day.

Most importantly, I think there are lots of people on our trails - especially the ones closer to monuments and memorials - who just don't understand what a MUP is and how they should be walking. I'm convinced the worst stretches are the narrow sidewalks near the Lincoln, and the path between the Cemetery and 110. A simple system of signage would go a long way towards helping everyone out. Not just wayfinding signs -- though those are great and necessary -- but basic rules. E.g. stay to your right. Be aware that faster peds and cyclists will pass on your left. Call your passes (if they put on the sign something like "Signal passing by either ringing a bell or saying 'Passing'." I think people would start conforming to one practice). Keep pets on a short lease (can we ban pets? pretty please?).

americancyclo
04-17-2012, 02:24 PM
And then of course I have an exception. Kids. I find that if I make any noise at all, they will move toward me. I slow down - and even go off the trail - to give them a wide berth.

This. Kids always turn toward the sound and that moves their bike into the other lane. I still ring my bell, but I do it far back enough that they have time to correct. Meaning I slow wayyyyy down. Got to get the kids in to the good habit of knowing what a ringing bell behind them means!

vvill
04-17-2012, 02:29 PM
LOL, the slow masher was probably me. What's wrong with saying you are passing every time? As has been stated here many times, the Custis has parts in poor conditions and is treated as a de facto one lane trail in certain locations with many riders veering in the other lane to avoid rutted spots. Maybe the other biker sees something like glass or debris or something ahead that somebody coming up behind does not, maybe the other biker is going to turn but is too lazy to signal and does not think anybody is behind them. Even if the trail appears clear to you, it might not be to somebody with better visibility, nothing wrong with saying you are passing and lots of good reasons to do so so, this coming from somebody who gets passed a lot.

I guess the only excuse I have right now is the pollen in my throat every dang ride and I'm generally a quiet person. But yeah there is nothing wrong with calling every pass, I just sometimes feel like it's not necessary and is more likely to be obnoxious/startling than beneficial.

rcannon100
04-17-2012, 02:52 PM
If we all signal every pass, then we core commuters create a culture. The consistent signaling will make signaling normative, not obnoxious or startling. Those that dare tread on our hallow grownd :p will quickly become acclimated to the culture.... and of course the haters will still be in a bad mood. The best thing we can do is define the culture on the trail.

Dirt
04-17-2012, 03:03 PM
If we all signal every pass, then we core commuters create a culture. The consistent signaling will make signaling normative, not obnoxious or startling. Those that dare tread on our hallow grownd :p will quickly become acclimated to the culture.... and of course the haters will still be in a bad mood. The best thing we can do is define the culture on the trail.

Yup! We are definitely responsible for defining our own culture. That goes for stop lights and riding politely too.

pfunkallstar
04-17-2012, 03:30 PM
I'm fine with trail culture as long as it isn't Oregon Trail culture, in which case Little Annie has just perished from dysentery.

consularrider
04-17-2012, 03:46 PM
I'm fine with trail culture as long as it isn't Oregon Trail culture, in which case Little Annie has just perished from dysentery.

So that's why there's been no word from ACC since she ordered her Tri gear? ;)

DaveK
04-17-2012, 05:03 PM
So that's why there's been no word from ACC since she ordered her Tri gear? ;)

Last heard from trying to float her wagon across a river in Kansas.

vvill
04-17-2012, 06:56 PM
Ok so on my way home today I called *every* pass but at one point another guy on a road bike flew by me with zero warning. *shrug* There just doesn't seem to be much consistency with calling passes. I also experimented between the bell and calling passes. The bell seemed to get more attention instantly but also startled people more. Except in one case where calling the pass startled someone enough to move to their left. I'm not convinced on this one.

Dirt
04-17-2012, 07:09 PM
I'm fine with trail culture as long as it isn't Oregon Trail culture, in which case Little Annie has just perished from dysentery.
Donner Party trail culture!!!! ;)

StopMeansStop
04-17-2012, 10:23 PM
I've had that happen a lot over the years. Using a bell helps, but honestly, if I see headphone cords these days I don't even bother giving a warning. If they really wanted to hear whats going on around them, they wouldn't be wearing fricking headphones. :rolleyes:

Hey, not all of us headphone wearers are oblivious. It helps not to listen to music though.

MCL1981
04-18-2012, 12:34 AM
You guys that protest headphones by not calling your pass are part of the problem. You're making it worse. You're ASSuming the person with the headphones can not hear you and that is flat wrong. I doubt you'll change your protest because I said so though. So when you crash in the name of protesting, make sure to include that in the report...

CCrew
04-18-2012, 05:25 AM
You're making it worse. You're ASSuming the person with the headphones can not hear you and that is flat wrong.

I ASSume that car drivers are out to kill me too, and while not true either so far that's kept me from being a hood ornament. And ASSuming that every jogger can hear us when wearing earphones is nothing more than pure folly. I would say they're the exception rather than the rule.

Here's where I am on this. I will always stop pedaling when I approach a ped on the trail. Main reason is to determine their intent but is also because the freewheel on my Easton's is about the loudest ratchet you ever heard. It scares deer, peds, and wakes the occasional zombie. You'll hear it before the doppler effect will allow my voice to be heard. If they clearly notice it, I'll call the pass. If they're oblivious? Oh well. You would be surprised how effective it really is.

MCL1981
04-18-2012, 07:03 AM
And ASSuming that every jogger can hear us when wearing earphones is nothing more than pure folly.
No I'm not assuming that at all. That's not what I said. The number of people who do an do not hear it is completely irrelevant. I don't think a loud back wheel counts as calling a pass. If you don't want to speak, that is what a bell is for. You (and others) are protesting something you don't like by intentionally ignoring your responsibility.

And people wonder where the arrogant self centered stereotype for cyclists comes from....

CCrew
04-18-2012, 08:48 AM
I don't think a loud back wheel counts as calling a pass.


No one ever said it did. But it is, as I said, an attention getting device - not unlike a bell.

As to stereotypes, you're doing a good job.

MCL1981
04-18-2012, 08:54 AM
Ok so on my way home today I called *every* pass but at one point another guy on a road bike flew by me with zero warning. *shrug* There just doesn't seem to be much consistency with calling passes. I also experimented between the bell and calling passes. The bell seemed to get more attention instantly but also startled people more. Except in one case where calling the pass startled someone enough to move to their left. I'm not convinced on this one.

You should ring the bell about 2-3 seconds before you reach the person you're passing for exactly that reason. Ringing (or yelling) while right on top of the person will just scare the crap of them. It startles me when people do that too. Plus it's just rude.



As to stereotypes, you're doing a good job.
Yes, I am so stereotypical of people who try to be courteous and follow the rules on the trail for everyone's proactive safety. Shame on me.

Tim Kelley
04-18-2012, 09:09 AM
You'll hear it before the doppler effect will allow my voice to be heard. If they clearly notice it, I'll call the pass. If they're oblivious? Oh well. You would be surprised how effective it really is.

How can you tell if they clearly notice it or not? As a runner when I hear anyone coming up behind me (bike or pedestrian), I hold my line to remain as predictable as possible, particularly when I'm pushing a wide jogging stroller.

My freewheel is quite loud as well and I find your coasting method more effective for passing other cyclists, rather than pedestrians. Being the super biker that you are, I would expect that pedestrians are just moving to slow to react to you, unless you're also braking and slowing way down when you coast.

And FYI for all--here's the official Arlington County literature on "Sharing the Way (http://www.bikearlington.com/tasks/sites/bike/assets/File/ShareTheWay2-10.pdf)"

dbb
04-18-2012, 09:19 AM
While warining early is good, the faster you go, the further away you are from the person you are warning. At 10 mph, 2 seconds is 29 feet. Speed up to 15 mph and that grows to 44 feet. At 20 mph, you are now 59 feet behind the person you will be passing in two seconds. Please note that I am not advocating any of these speeds on the trail, just discussing the distance traveled.

Unless you have a warning device of great volume, you will likely have to make your call a bit closer than two seconds out. I am not sure a voice will be particularly noticable at 44 feet when mixed with the myriad background noise often present on the trails.

As the mornings are getting brighter the warning our lights give to a trail user ahead will disappear, so we need to be aware.

I try to both ease up on the speed and give a warning a second or so before I pass. It is a balance between being heard and not scaring the crap out of the peds.

I use a bell for peds and call my passes with cyclists (on the occasion I am able to pass another rider). We can encourage cyclists to call their passes by responding, "thanks".

jabberwocky
04-18-2012, 09:35 AM
You guys that protest headphones by not calling your pass are part of the problem. You're making it worse. You're ASSuming the person with the headphones can not hear you and that is flat wrong. I doubt you'll change your protest because I said so though. So when you crash in the name of protesting, make sure to include that in the report...I commuted on the W&OD for several years and logged tens of thousands of miles there. My experience is that I'm actually better off not calling passes on headphone-wearers, because they react really randomly when I do so. Its not really a protest, its just (IME) the best way to deal with them.

If you're among the 10% or so of headphone wearers who aren't total idiots, I salute you and apologize in advance. :)

creadinger
04-18-2012, 09:49 AM
I have a squeaky front brake, which is good for alerting people I'm coming up. How do I know? People will glance back to look. The other thing is that I'm never going anywhere on a trail where I'm in THAT much of a hurry where I'm passing people at 20mph. I'm that biker guy who will slow down to a walking pace because on coming peds and bikers are in the way and there's not enough room to pass. On a completely empty trail, save for one jogger in my way I'll just pass as far to the left as possible and not give a warning because he's clearly where he should be, cannot move over any more anyway. I'm also arrogant and self-centered.

pfunkallstar
04-18-2012, 09:50 AM
I commuted on the W&OD for several years and logged tens of thousands of miles there. My experience is that I'm actually better off not calling passes on headphone-wearers, because they react really randomly when I do so. Its not really a protest, its just (IME) the best way to deal with them.

If you're among the 10% or so of headphone wearers who aren't total idiots, I salute you and apologize in advance. :)

Ditto on this, W und OD headphone wearers, specifically that one woman who runs in a Kenmore Middle School Shirt circa 1996 (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!), have a hard time grasping that A) other people are on the trail, B) the center line is not there to pace out on, and C) if you hold up your left hand your index finger and thumb form the shape of an "L," which also happens to be the first letter of the word "left."

Also, the Arlington County "Sharing the Way" guide informs us to "use verbal warnings only when necessary," which is just plain awful advice. I let out a guttural, Braveheart-esque warning before every pass, it is good for society and the digestion.

dasgeh
04-18-2012, 10:04 AM
I'm still in the "call every pass" camp, in part because of the "trail culture" idea. Even if the headphone-wearer in front of you can't hear, the other people around (and sometimes you don't see them) will hear and respect that you're a rule-following cyclist. And you'll get in the habit of calling every pass. Besides, you never know what they're wearing (could be an old school hearing aid) or listening to (could be nothing), so they may hear you.

In my experience, about 1/3 of the peds I pass react completely randomly, headphones or no. I always slow down when I approach peds, and am ready with hands on breaks to stop quickly (or know where I'd go) in case a ped does freak out. Of course, I'm mostly around peds near monuments, so many of them are tourists, some from places that don't seem to have bikes. WHICH IS WHY WE NEED INSTRUCTIONAL SIGNS!!

rcannon100
04-18-2012, 10:14 AM
A thought on why experiences may be different.

One variable is WHEN the signal is give. As a fellow cyclists, I can share and confess that I hate the signal that is two feet from my ear. Yelling "LEFT" in my ear means you are already on my left, does not give me a chance to move right, and does not avoid me floating left into your path if I am avoiding something like one of those Custis Trail moguls.

I signal probably 50' behind the person with a bell. It creates a nice doppler effect giving them notice not only that I am there but also how fast I am coming. I almost always get positive responses (except for those haters). One thing haters have yelled at me is when the signal is too close.

If you signal within 10', that could be why you are startling people and why you are getting negative reactions.

mstone
04-18-2012, 10:22 AM
Also, the Arlington County "Sharing the Way" guide informs us to "use verbal warnings only when necessary," which is just plain awful advice. I let out a guttural, Braveheart-esque warning before every pass, it is good for society and the digestion.

I agree with the advice; you should use a bell unless there's something that really needs to be communicated with speech.

vvill
04-18-2012, 11:25 AM
Easy solution to all this: get myself an AirZound. Might help with the traffic (both and peds) in Georgetown that likes to dart in front of you and no one can claim they didn't hear me coming. :D

Tim Kelley
04-18-2012, 11:35 AM
Easy solution to all this: get myself an AirZound.

I've found that an airzound is way too loud for pedestrian use.

chris_s
04-18-2012, 11:42 AM
If you signal within 10', that could be why you are startling people and why you are getting negative reactions.

That's been my experience as well; I've been getting lots of "thanks" and acknowledgements ever since I started dinging the bell farther back. It's less startling and gives people more time to react. Requires a nice loud bell though (or some serious vocal cords)

DCAKen
04-18-2012, 12:26 PM
I call out "Passing Left" to every person or group I pass on the trails. However, I don't generally call out when the runner/walker is off the pavement. The other day, a woman who was running in the dirt path next to the Rock Creek trail decided to suddenly jump back onto the pavement just as I was passing. After hearing her mutter "Jackass", I was tempted to stop to ask her why she didn't look around before hopping back on the pavement and whether she drove the same way, changing lanes without looking. But I let it slide...

I also have the habit of shouting "Stay to the right!" to people who are walking/running/cycling on the wrong side.

bikesnick
04-18-2012, 01:24 PM
I also have the habit of shouting "Stay to the right!" to people who are walking/running/cycling on the wrong side.

yes, but my experience is most people do NOT like that call. i try to tell them it's for their safety, but some people must feel safer walking towards cyclists.

brendan
04-18-2012, 01:31 PM
Oddly enough, people seem to get out of the way when they hear me say, "I'm not going back to prison!!!" or "We're all gonna die!!!". Don't know why, but those two seem to work pretty well.

I've had bad luck with bells. People hear it, but many are startled by it and behave unpredictably.

Heheheh. On bells, I'm rather happy with the classic-style new belgium brewery freebie bell I put on last year. A nice loud "brrrrrrrrrring" that I can control the length of by using a short or long lever throw, so it can be a quiet ding for lower-speed passes or a longer louder ring (or set of several) for higher speed passes from farther back.

I'm also of the philosophy of generous warnings: a ring or two early/farther back and an on-your-left from closer up. Usually works well for me.

Brendan

consularrider
04-18-2012, 01:40 PM
yes, but my experience is most people do NOT like that call. i try to tell them it's for their safety, but some people must feel safer walking towards cyclists.
I'm going to be snarky here, but with all the trail signs saying stay right, some people must feel they are just more special than everyone else. :mad:

consularrider
04-18-2012, 01:47 PM
Heheheh. On bells, I'm rather happy with the classic-style new belgium brewery freebie bell I put on last year. A nice loud "brrrrrrrrrring" that I can control the length of by using a short or long lever throw, so it can be a quiet ding for lower-speed passes or a longer louder ring (or set of several) for higher speed passes from farther back.

I'm also of the philosophy of generous warnings: a ring or two early/farther back and an on-your-left from closer up. Usually works well for me.

Brendan
I too love that bell, but I put it on the bike that my siblings and I use at my parents' house 700 miles from here. I'm rather partial to my simple ding Crane Suzu lever strike bell (http://www.velofred.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=35), it has a nice clear tone, is one of the loudest I've found, and its brass tone complements the color of my hybrid frame. ;)

CCrew
04-18-2012, 02:19 PM
How can you tell if they clearly notice it or not? As a runner when I hear anyone coming up behind me (bike or pedestrian), I hold my line to remain as predictable as possible, particularly when I'm pushing a wide jogging stroller.

Simply. They'll invariably turn their head to see what the strange noise is. And trust me, my freewheel is stupid loud. I back off at a distance that if I call a pass I can guarantee they won't hear unless I scream it out. I'm not racing, I'm riding, so I don't know where the "super biker" moniker comes in here. Almost comes across offensive.

Keep in mind, I run into copious amounts of runners at 2am as you can imagine, so it's not like it's a huge issue. Scares the crap out of the deer tho.

aflapr
04-18-2012, 02:32 PM
I let out a guttural, Braveheart-esque warning before every pass, it is good for society and the digestion.

Classic! I will now add "FRRRREEEEEDDDDDOOOOMMMMM!!!" to my repertoire.

mrkenny83
05-16-2012, 08:17 AM
This morning, I had my first passing-gone-wrong incident.

I was on the wood/bridge portion of MVT (by the TR Bridge/66) and there was a woman jogging in the center of the route. I ring my bell way far in advance to no avail. I start yelling "passing on your left" with no success. As I get closer, I get panicky and louder - "I'M ABOUT TO PASS ON YOUR LEFT, PLEASE MOVE OVER TO THE RIGHT!"

I realize she can't hear me, so I begin my deceleration. As I'm approaching her, out of nowhere, she spins around to begin jogging in the opposite direction (now towards me). I have to break harder/faster.... and since I'm on the wet wood, my rear tire fishtails, I fall, and skid about 5 feet.

The woman looks down at me and yells "F**K YOU A**HOLE! YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO WARN PEOPLE WHEN YOU'RE NEAR THEM"

I waived as she flicked me off and continued her run. I couldn't help but hear the sound of another cyclist fall/skid. I wonder if she was the culprit there, too.....

Have a great day lady.

txgoonie
05-16-2012, 08:45 AM
People amaze me, mrkenny83. Her for being so oblivious. You for letting it go with a wave. That's zen. I don't think I'd be quite so enlightened.

SpokeGrenadeSR
05-16-2012, 08:49 AM
that runner...
http://www.straferight.com/photopost/data/500/medium/double-facepalm.jpg

vvill
05-16-2012, 09:10 AM
This morning, I had my first passing-gone-wrong incident.
...

Ugh! Sorry to hear that.

People on the trails is one of my motivations for getting up early and beating the commuter rush. When I used to drive or metro to work, it was the same... just a different kind of traffic.

pfunkallstar
05-16-2012, 09:28 AM
Kudos for the wave. I've done a short bow, sometimes called a curtsy, after two falls and have left the instigators flabbergasted. Kinda backfired last time when I didn't realize that my thigh was bleeding until the pain kicked in. NONETHELESS - zen is as zen does and you my friend are f'n zen.

KLizotte
05-16-2012, 10:27 AM
I'm going to be snarky here, but with all the trail signs saying stay right, some people must feel they are just more special than everyone else. :mad:

Unfortunately there are no such signs on the MVT.

MrKenny, I hope you suffered little more than bruises. Unfortunately you will probably run into that crazy lady again (no pun intended).

GuyContinental
05-16-2012, 10:30 AM
Daylight Crazy Ivan! That is rare Ninja style there...

JeffC
05-16-2012, 10:41 AM
This morning, I had my first passing-gone-wrong incident.

I was on the wood/bridge portion of MVT (by the TR Bridge/66) and there was a woman jogging in the center of the route. I ring my bell way far in advance to no avail. I start yelling "passing on your left" with no success. As I get closer, I get panicky and louder - "I'M ABOUT TO PASS ON YOUR LEFT, PLEASE MOVE OVER TO THE RIGHT!"

I realize she can't hear me, so I begin my deceleration. As I'm approaching her, out of nowhere, she spins around to begin jogging in the opposite direction (now towards me). I have to break harder/faster.... and since I'm on the wet wood, my rear tire fishtails, I fall, and skid about 5 feet.

The woman looks down at me and yells "F**K YOU A**HOLE! YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO WARN PEOPLE WHEN YOU'RE NEAR THEM"

I waived as she flicked me off and continued her run. I couldn't help but hear the sound of another cyclist fall/skid. I wonder if she was the culprit there, too.....

Have a great day lady.

Wow, hope you are better. If I had been in your shoes, unless the woman was pregnant, I might have taken physical action. This is yet another reason why our bike infrastructure is not that good and why we need separate bike only paths. My dream is to some day have the Custis be bike only from say 4 to 7 pm from April through September.

rcannon100
05-16-2012, 11:04 AM
Unfortunately the area is rife with college students jogging from GTown and GW, who have all but no sense of trail etiquette. Up on the Custis I had a crazy ivan - walked to the right to cross and then doubled back deciding she needed to mash the cross walk button - who cursed as I went by yelling "watch watch watch" As was said in the movie, "We must give this American a wide berth." The ninja's will learn fast hopefully. Only thing you can do is steer clear, go slow, and not let it get to you. After all, you're on a bicycle!!! :cool:

Dirt
05-16-2012, 11:34 AM
I've been thinking about this stuff as I psychotically sing my way down the multi-use trails of the National Capital Region... It is odd to me what people hear and what they don't.... what registers with them and what doesn't.

The fixie is totally stealth. People not only don't hear it, but they tend not to hear me while I'm riding it unless I'm singing something particularly heinous.

Things are different on the fatbike. There's something about the rumbling of something that sounds like a truck tire that gets through both headphones and "me me me" mindset. I usually don't have to sing when I'm on that bike. I do anyways because it is wonderfully therapeutic to sing really loud, out of tune and with the wrong words.

I may have to start a new scientific study of this.

Hugs and kisses,

Dirt

Mikey
05-16-2012, 12:06 PM
I've been thinking about this stuff as I psychotically sing my way down the multi-use trails of the National Capital Region... It is odd to me what people hear and what they don't.... what registers with them and what doesn't.

The fixie is totally stealth. People not only don't hear it, but they tend not to hear me while I'm riding it unless I'm singing something particularly heinous.

Things are different on the fatbike. There's something about the rumbling of something that sounds like a truck tire that gets through both headphones and "me me me" mindset. I usually don't have to sing when I'm on that bike. I do anyways because it is wonderfully therapeutic to sing really loud, out of tune and with the wrong words.

I may have to start a new scientific study of this.

Hugs and kisses,

Dirt

Dirt,
What song do you tend to sing? So I know it is you comming up behind me. I find that Stevie Wonder's "Ribbons in the Sky" tends to jump in my head on the W&OD between Ceder and 495; the trail is pretty straight here and you can see a thin ribbon of asphalt leading to the horizon.

FFX_Hinterlands
05-16-2012, 12:30 PM
A thought on why experiences may be different.

One variable is WHEN the signal is give. As a fellow cyclists, I can share and confess that I hate the signal that is two feet from my ear. Yelling "LEFT" in my ear means you are already on my left, does not give me a chance to move right, and does not avoid me floating left into your path if I am avoiding something like one of those Custis Trail moguls.

I signal probably 50' behind the person with a bell. It creates a nice doppler effect giving them notice not only that I am there but also how fast I am coming. I almost always get positive responses (except for those haters). One thing haters have yelled at me is when the signal is too close.

If you signal within 10', that could be why you are startling people and why you are getting negative reactions.

I was going to add to this thread, by rcannon100 has left me with nothing more to add. Get a big bell with some sustain (brass preferably), and ring far in advance. The doppler effect tells them you're coming. Bells can be heard over headphones in many cases.

Dirt
05-16-2012, 12:40 PM
Dirt,
What song do you tend to sing? So I know it is you comming up behind me. I find that Stevie Wonder's "Ribbons in the Sky" tends to jump in my head on the W&OD between Ceder and 495; the trail is pretty straight here and you can see a thin ribbon of asphalt leading to the horizon.
Totally depends on the day, my mood and the number of people on the trail. This morning was Roxanne, by The Police sung with my best/worst Eddie Murphy impersonation. Truly scary thing to behold.

baiskeli
05-16-2012, 01:20 PM
Totally depends on the day, my mood and the number of people on the trail. This morning was Roxanne, by The Police sung with my best/worst Eddie Murphy impersonation. Truly scary thing to behold.

Since you're passing on the left, I think it should be songs with "left" in them. I found some candidates on the web:

Beyonce - "To the Left"

The Replacements - "Left of the Dial"

Nickelback - "Left"

No, wait, scratch that. Don't ever sing a Nickelback song, ever.

Suzanne Vega - "Left of Center"

dasgeh
05-16-2012, 01:36 PM
BTW, in Iowa I saw a lady on a bike with a speaker. As in she was riding along, a speaker was mounter where I bike computer would normally be on the stem, and a nice workout-oriented was playing (at a responsible level). Seemed like a nice idea...

jabberwocky
05-16-2012, 01:46 PM
BTW, in Iowa I saw a lady on a bike with a speaker. As in she was riding along, a speaker was mounter where I bike computer would normally be on the stem, and a nice workout-oriented was playing (at a responsible level). Seemed like a nice idea...Several years ago I was riding the Capital Crescent back from Bethesda. As I approached DC, I passed a dude sedately riding a department store bike pulling a trailer. On the trailer was an old-school boombox. Which was playing "Eye of the Tiger" at full volume.

It was awesome. :D

thucydides
05-16-2012, 02:08 PM
BTW, in Iowa I saw a lady on a bike with a speaker. As in she was riding along, a speaker was mounter where I bike computer would normally be on the stem, and a nice workout-oriented was playing (at a responsible level). Seemed like a nice idea...

I bet she's a frequenter of RAGBRAI. Lots of the folks there ride along with musical accompaniment (some of a decidly R-rated sort). If I ever do RAGBRAI again I want to go as Team Fitzcarraldo and play opera all the way across Iowa.

dasgeh
05-16-2012, 03:28 PM
That's definitely an awesome thing about being out in Iowa -- TONS of people are training to do RAGBRAI. Unfortunately, while they have some great trails, the people who don't live those trails seem to drive to places they can bike. Definitely not consistent bike infrastructure, at least in DSM.

Terpfan
05-16-2012, 05:06 PM
While warining early is good, the faster you go, the further away you are from the person you are warning. At 10 mph, 2 seconds is 29 feet. Speed up to 15 mph and that grows to 44 feet. At 20 mph, you are now 59 feet behind the person you will be passing in two seconds. Please note that I am not advocating any of these speeds on the trail, just discussing the distance traveled.

Unless you have a warning device of great volume, you will likely have to make your call a bit closer than two seconds out. I am not sure a voice will be particularly noticable at 44 feet when mixed with the myriad background noise often present on the trails.

As the mornings are getting brighter the warning our lights give to a trail user ahead will disappear, so we need to be aware.

I try to both ease up on the speed and give a warning a second or so before I pass. It is a balance between being heard and not scaring the crap out of the peds.

I use a bell for peds and call my passes with cyclists (on the occasion I am able to pass another rider). We can encourage cyclists to call their passes by responding, "thanks".

That's presuming the other cyclist/jogger/etc isn't moving either. Aside from at Gravely Pt, rarely are people stationary. So even the joggers you have to factor moving at 4-5mph into that equation. The bikers are even easier because the slowest are still moving at a decent clip relative to you.

I find the biggest problem is the other distractions/noises. By Gravely, the planes and GWP are horrendously loud entirely destroying the effect desired. And by the Mall the tourists are so pre-occupied with orienting themselves or getting the perfect picture that they entirely forget people live, work or otherwise commute through the city.

And of course kids, which I tend to try to avoid widely or go slowly by since they seem to move without discretion or worry (and seriously, when I see the littler ones riding right by the edge of Reagan National's fences I do worry one will one day ride into the Parkway).

5555624
05-17-2012, 03:55 AM
BTW, in Iowa I saw a lady on a bike with a speaker. As in she was riding along, a speaker was mounter where I bike computer would normally be on the stem, and a nice workout-oriented was playing (at a responsible level). Seemed like a nice idea...

Years ago, I saw an advertisement for a small bike-mounted radio. It was a tempting idea for my morning commute, but I like the peace and quiet more.

dasgeh
05-17-2012, 10:10 AM
Years ago, I saw an advertisement for a small bike-mounted radio. It was a tempting idea for my morning commute, but I like the peace and quiet more.

Good point, though I'd love one for my evening commute. There's no peace and quiet, and it may help the peds who can't seem to grasp what "on your left", "heads up", "nice evening, please share the trail" mean. In fact, I overslept this morning (whoops) so rode in much later than usual. The Arlington side was wonderful -- much fewer cars. Once on the other side of ANC, however, was another story. Masses of tourists, cars and buses clogging up EVERYTHING. Luckily, I didn't have long to slog through that mess.

Dirt
05-17-2012, 10:59 AM
Since you're passing on the left, I think it should be songs with "left" in them. I found some candidates on the web:
"Sweetness... I was only joking when I said, By right you should be bludgeoned in your bed tonight...."

jabberwocky
05-17-2012, 11:01 AM
"Sweetness... I was only joking when I said, By right you should be bludgeoned in your bed tonight...."Do you know how joan of arc felt now?

I love the treepeople's cover of that song.

Dirt
05-17-2012, 11:09 AM
Do you know how joan of arc felt now?

I love the treepeople's cover of that song.
Yarp. :D

Terpfan
05-17-2012, 11:54 AM
50/50 this morning on MVT. I decided to call every pass (didn't do two because of jet noises being so loud they would be utterly pointless) even if they were in those sort of situations they weren't really necessary in. I also counted those passing me for calls and figured out it was 50/50 of whether they would call. I made a point to say "nice call" when they didn't call.

baiskeli
05-17-2012, 02:20 PM
"Sweetness... I was only joking when I said, By right you should be bludgeoned in your bed tonight...."

"Right! You're bloody well right. You got a bloody right to say."

JeffC
05-18-2012, 09:11 AM
This particular thread was mentioned in today's Metro section of the Washington Post, looks like we are gaining notoriety.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/bike-lover-bike-hater-depends-on-whether-youre-on-four-wheels-or-two/2012/05/17/gIQARP6VWU_story.html

pfunkallstar
05-18-2012, 09:18 AM
I figured it would be a busy "on your left" day, so I actually counted the number of times I said it -98

SpokeGrenadeSR
05-18-2012, 10:32 AM
I figured it would be a busy "on your left" day, so I actually counted the number of times I said it -98
bells for the win. had i said "on your left" the amount of times i rang that, i'd have no voice left!

KLizotte
05-18-2012, 11:10 AM
This particular thread was mentioned in today's Metro section of the Washington Post, looks like we are gaining notoriety.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/bike-lover-bike-hater-depends-on-whether-youre-on-four-wheels-or-two/2012/05/17/gIQARP6VWU_story.html

Great article. Very funny and astute.

gensuki
05-19-2012, 02:00 PM
I both bike and jog on the Custis Trail. This thread well represents the biker viewpoint. I wanted to give some from the ped viewpoint. Only about 20% will give me an audible warning. I acknowledge my gratitude with a hand wave. Once in a while, the silent biker’s bike makes noise so I can hear it coming despite lack of audible. Most times, whizzing bikes startle me, especially when they pass really close to me when I’m jogging. I try to yell out “Give warning” as they pass, but they are out of earshot too soon. I wish all bikers would issue audibles. Is there some way to remind all bikers to do this? I’ve thought about wearing a sign on my back “BIKERS: GIVE AUDIBLE WARNING” but worry that may backfire on me. Any thoughts?

Steve O
05-19-2012, 03:36 PM
My wife is a ped only (doesn't ride a bike). She tells me she appreciates bells much more than verbal warnings. For her, they are easier to hear and interpret.
@Gensuki - I like the idea of the t-shirt reminder. I don't think it would offend anyone, particularly if you added the word "please."

rcannon100
06-26-2012, 04:40 PM
Saw this at Anglers Inn today. Note the proximity with which NPS says you should signal your passes (hint: It's not 5 feet).

1258

dasgeh
06-26-2012, 04:49 PM
I saw a great sign at the Canal Road exit from Georgetown U for cars turning right. I think it said something like "Look both ways for pedestrians and bicycles; Area of high pedestrian use" or similar. So it can be done.

creadinger
06-26-2012, 05:00 PM
Hah, 100 feet??

On the MVT that would mean calling/dinging to pass the 4th person up ahead while passing #1. The sightlines and traffic on the MVT just do not warrant giving huge warning times before passing, unless you just want to constantly ding your bell every 5-10 seconds. Most of the time when I pass another cyclist I have been riding behind them for a few seconds already because on-coming traffic is in the way. So no, they don't get multiple warnings 5 seconds prior to me passing them.

KLizotte
06-26-2012, 08:46 PM
Saw this at Anglers Inn today. Note the proximity with which NPS says you should signal your passes (hint: It's not 5 feet).

1258

100 feet? Seriously?!

There should also be a sign for ped users too; they have responsibilities as well. Just sayin'

Bilsko
06-26-2012, 11:10 PM
100 feet? Seriously?!

There should also be a sign for ped users too; they have responsibilities as well. Just sayin'


The language is weird though....approaching within 100ft. How else would the whole passing thing work? Or perhaps there are sections of the trail where you get a wiiiiide 125ft berth.

brendan
06-27-2012, 11:24 AM
Hah, 100 feet??

On the MVT that would mean calling/dinging to pass the 4th person up ahead while passing #1. The sightlines and traffic on the MVT just do not warrant giving huge warning times before passing, unless you just want to constantly ding your bell every 5-10 seconds. Most of the time when I pass another cyclist I have been riding behind them for a few seconds already because on-coming traffic is in the way. So no, they don't get multiple warnings 5 seconds prior to me passing them.

On weekend MVT rides, I ding my bell every 5-10 seconds. Which is why I almost never ride the MVT on weekends...and if I do, I don't do it on any sort of time schedule.

Brendan

consularrider
06-27-2012, 11:36 AM
On weekend MVT rides, I ding my bell every 5-10 seconds. Which is why I almost never ride the MVT on weekends...and if I do, I don't do it on any sort of time schedule.

Brendan
Let's see if we can get a group together with different bells and see what tune we can come up with alternately ringing the bells every 5-10 seconds. ;)

5555624
06-27-2012, 11:57 AM
On weekend MVT rides, I ding my bell every 5-10 seconds. Which is why I almost never ride the MVT on weekends...and if I do, I don't do it on any sort of time schedule.

I used to feel the same way, but lately I've been doing some Saturday morning rides. If you're off the MVT by 4:30 a.m., it's not bad. ;)

consularrider
06-27-2012, 01:53 PM
I used to feel the same way, but lately I've been doing some Saturday morning rides. If you're off the MVT by 4:30 a.m., it's not bad. ;)
Also remember there is a 15 mph speed limit on the entire trail that is honored just about as much as the 40 mph speed limit on the adjoining GW Pkwy. That said, I'm on the MVT at least five days a week and usually twice a day during commuting hours with more variable times on the weekends and really rarely feel frustration with other trail users. OK maybe once of twice a day, but that's no worse than I would experience anywhere else. There are certainly routes on city streets as an option, but I really enjoy 90% of the MVT from Rosslyn to 4MR. Now if they would just widen the Memorial Bridge underpass!

pfunkallstar
06-27-2012, 02:32 PM
I was cruising in with some guys this morning around 7ish and both of them insisted on ringing their bells pretty much constantly starting around 100ft out - good in theory - but in practice it just scared the crap out of the pedestrians.

dasgeh
06-27-2012, 03:02 PM
I'm thinking of putting multiple bells on my bike and playing songs on my way into work...

KLizotte
06-27-2012, 04:05 PM
I rode the Custis eastbound yesterday at rush hour for the first time. Wow, I feel so bad for the people heading westbound in the afternoon because they have it even worse than I experienced. Given the nature of the Custis (narrow, curvy, lots of hills) it is definitely not a good place for peds to be, esp given the blind curves and speeds that come with the hills.

Regarding bells, there were a few places where I could not ring my bell since I really needed to keep both hands on the brakes for safety of all concerned so I relied on voice calls (but the peds were listening to iPods anyway). Note to peds: we can't always ring our bells for this reason.

Terpfan
06-28-2012, 09:42 AM
I don't ring it 3 separate times if I'm passing 2 or 3 clusters of peds within a few feet of each other because it just confuses them more. And I'm starting to question even ringing it for tourists as it seems like they not the faintest clue why a bell would ever ring. They also ignore any calls. I basically have just taken to dealing with them very slowly. My favorite is the bike tours...they seem to move toward the bell like a herd.

DavidAsch
06-28-2012, 09:56 AM
How's this for a twist! I commute regularly on the path through Rock Creek Park and always ding my bell when I pass runners. Yesterday when I dinged my bell, the runner said, "That was completely unnecessary." I slowed down and asked what she meant. She said, "I am here. You are there. The bell is an annoyance."

mstone
06-28-2012, 10:17 AM
How's this for a twist! I commute regularly on the path through Rock Creek Park and always ding my bell when I pass runners. Yesterday when I dinged my bell, the runner said, "That was completely unnecessary." I slowed down and asked what she meant. She said, "I am here. You are there. The bell is an annoyance."

Simply explain that you are meeting your obligation to signal the pass. If she wishes to opt out, she should wear a large sign on her back indicating that she does not want to be so notified--otherwise it is impossible for a cyclist to guess that.

dasgeh
06-28-2012, 10:48 AM
The more I ride around other cyclists (since my commute moved from ANC to the Custis), the more I wish more cyslists called their passes, because the more passes are called, the more normal it is. E.g. this morning, I was 5th in a line of 6 bikes headed down the Rosslyn hill. #2 had a bell, and sometimes rang it. No one else called. Given that there wasn't much point in passing, I'd sometimes let a gap open between me and #4. I called almost all my passes, but I was torn, because I could see how, from the ped's prospective, it would be weird to be passed by so many bikes, and have one towards the end say something. In the end, I kept calling because I didn't want to pass the one ped who decided to veer into me ('cause I really, really don't want to fall, with the whole baby thing).

Anyway, just another inarticulate reason for everyone to call all passes.


How's this for a twist! I commute regularly on the path through Rock Creek Park and always ding my bell when I pass runners. Yesterday when I dinged my bell, the runner said, "That was completely unnecessary." I slowed down and asked what she meant. She said, "I am here. You are there. The bell is an annoyance."

Isn't the answer to that just "Well, those are the rules of the trail, as it were"? It's like using a blinker in a car -- sometimes unnecessary, but always the rule.

pfunkallstar
06-28-2012, 11:00 AM
How's this for a twist! I commute regularly on the path through Rock Creek Park and always ding my bell when I pass runners. Yesterday when I dinged my bell, the runner said, "That was completely unnecessary." I slowed down and asked what she meant. She said, "I am here. You are there. The bell is an annoyance.".

I got that from a woman running with what looked like a mastiff/lab mix - "Your voice upset my dog!" I apologized, but didn't really understand what she was getting on about, the dog was just standing there drooling like a maniac.

TwoWheelsDC
06-28-2012, 11:05 AM
What about dinging on behalf of cyclists in front of you? Sometimes if I'm in a line of cyclists and I notice people aren't calling passes, I'll ding from the back before the lead bike overtakes a ped. But I hate to give the cyclists in front of me the impression that I'm going to pass THEM....so I'm conflicted on this practice.

consularrider
06-28-2012, 11:17 AM
How's this for a twist! I commute regularly on the path through Rock Creek Park and always ding my bell when I pass runners. Yesterday when I dinged my bell, the runner said, "That was completely unnecessary." I slowed down and asked what she meant. She said, "I am here. You are there. The bell is an annoyance."
I've had this twice over the past year on the 4MRT between Walter Reed and George Mason, maybe the same runner? The first time was what I thought was a snotty remark about how he was an experienced runner (how can I tell the difference?) and the second was that one ding was enough (I almost always do a double ding). I think I've had somebody else refer to me as the "ice cream truck" when I had to pass a large group.

KelOnWheels
06-28-2012, 11:56 AM
I was practicing being cheerful today on my commute and discovered that for bell-immune tourists an extra-extra-cheerful "Excuse me! Thank you! Good morning!" got good results :) Some of them even said good morning back!

I had a good cyclist pass call ratio today too, so thanks to all of you that passed me and called it :D

krazygl00
06-28-2012, 03:34 PM
I was practicing being cheerful today on my commute and discovered that for bell-immune tourists an extra-extra-cheerful "Excuse me! Thank you! Good morning!" got good results :) Some of them even said good morning back!

I had a good cyclist pass call ratio today too, so thanks to all of you that passed me and called it :D

Ugh. Being that cheerful would make me lose my breakfast.

ShawnoftheDread
06-28-2012, 03:58 PM
I was practicing being cheerful today on my commute and discovered that for bell-immune tourists an extra-extra-cheerful "Excuse me! Thank you! Good morning!" got good results :) Some of them even said good morning back!

I had a good cyclist pass call ratio today too, so thanks to all of you that passed me and called it :D

That only works with the early-riser types (people who are out at 7:00 a.m. during vacation are nutso). Afternoon would yield much different results.

KelOnWheels
06-28-2012, 04:23 PM
That only works with the early-riser types (people who are out at 7:00 a.m. during vacation are nutso). Afternoon would yield much different results.

Oh yeah. No shot at that happening in the afternoon. I'm totes getting an Air Zound so I can just vaporize them with a sonic blast.

KelOnWheels
06-28-2012, 04:24 PM
Ugh. Being that cheerful would make me lose my breakfast.

Don't worry, it wore off ;)

5555624
06-28-2012, 04:32 PM
That only works with the early-riser types (people who are out at 7:00 a.m. during vacation are nutso).

Yeah, why wait that late?

Saturdays at 4:00 a.m. or so, I often get "good morning" comments from those I find walking on the trail.

pfunkallstar
06-29-2012, 09:35 AM
Yeah, why wait that late?

Saturdays at 4:00 a.m. or so, I often get "good morning" comments from those I find walking on the trail.

If you are down on the MVT you will often run into random Ft. Myer/Pentagoners jogging around at 5am or so, with that being their mid-morning run. Insane.

5555624
06-29-2012, 10:10 AM
If you are down on the MVT you will often run into random Ft. Myer/Pentagoners jogging around at 5am or so, with that being their mid-morning run. Insane.

Which is why I will shoot to be off the MVT by 4:30 a.m. or so tomorrow. (During the week I'm never close to being on the trail that late.)

Dirt
07-25-2012, 05:16 PM
Y'all think you have "On your left" problems? I think this might qualify as a "Tail of woe."
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7646105892_cdd5d4ec3b_b.jpg

Hope all is well with y'all. We're having fun in Africa.

dasgeh
07-25-2012, 05:19 PM
I think this might qualify as a "Tail of woe."

Only if he didn't call his pass. I can only assume the he didn't have a bell. How ELITE!

Dirt
07-25-2012, 05:22 PM
Y'all think you have "On your left" problems? I think this might qualify as a "Tail of woe."
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7646105892_cdd5d4ec3b_b.jpg

Hope all is well with y'all. We're having fun in Africa.

MCL1981
07-25-2012, 11:21 PM
I'd yield to that.

Dirt
07-26-2012, 07:10 AM
To be fair, drivers don't have it so easy around here either...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8426/7649310878_59c0a603ac_b.jpg
Nice doggie!!!

vvill
07-26-2012, 09:02 AM
Nice doggie!!! They're so cute!

Terpfan
07-26-2012, 09:19 AM
Y'all think you have "On your left" problems? I think this might qualify as a "Tail of woe."
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7646105892_cdd5d4ec3b_b.jpg

Hope all is well with y'all. We're having fun in Africa.

On the bright side, he's not hugging the middle of the path.

dbb
07-26-2012, 09:25 AM
To be fair, drivers don't have it so easy around here either...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8426/7649310878_59c0a603ac_b.jpg
Nice doggie!!!

This is where Dirt's "Honk if you're horny" bumper sticker would be appropriate!

elcee
07-26-2012, 09:54 AM
Y'all think you have "On your left" problems? I think this might qualify as a "Tail of woe."
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7646105892_cdd5d4ec3b_b.jpg

Hope all is well with y'all. We're having fun in Africa.

Actually, the elephant is correctly following the local road rule. Vehicles drive on the left-hand side of the road, and therefore pass on the right.

:)

mstone
07-26-2012, 09:58 AM
I'd yield to that.

I think the proper procedure is to get right next to it in stealth mode, then shout and ring your bell.

Guus
07-26-2012, 02:57 PM
The good news is that not much will be left of any bollards on the road after your fellow trail user has walked over it.

KLizotte
07-26-2012, 03:30 PM
The good news is that not much will be left of any bollards on the road after your fellow trail user has walked over it.

Unfortunately, I think their poop ends up becoming a kind of bollard. Ya really gotta watch where you're riding in those parts.

acc
07-26-2012, 05:44 PM
Y'all think you have "On your left" problems? I think this might qualify as a "Tail of woe."
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7646105892_cdd5d4ec3b_b.jpg

Hope all is well with y'all. We're having fun in Africa.

Dirt, please remember, no riding in the trunk, or bouncing off it either. :rolleyes:

Certifried
07-26-2012, 08:56 PM
Hope all is well with y'all. We're having fun in Africa.

looks like you're having a hellephantime!

Tim Kelley
07-30-2012, 10:15 AM
Y'all think you have "On your left" problems? I think this might qualify as a "Tail of woe."

Could be worse. He could be coming the other direction. And you could be the one driving!!

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