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streetsmarts
11-07-2017, 08:35 AM
so while riding home through Shaw last night in the dark my chain came off / got stuck. i got all greasy trying to unstick it and finally got a bus home.

this ..or something similar....has happened several times. my LBS has adjusted the derailleurs recently.

1. should I attempt to fix (meaning undo this mess and put the chain back on) or take to LBS? I do think this time the chain in partly twisted near hangar

2. is it me...or is something wrong with the derailleur, limit screws, hangar, etc?

thanks https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/82c4e285e1353b0949dbb607ec62b4b6.jpg

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drevil
11-07-2017, 08:43 AM
That's called chainsuck (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS696US696&ei=P8YBWtSWFYmWmQG3lLD4Cw&q=fix+chainsuck&oq=fix+chainsuck&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1.110992.112891.0.113517.13.13.0.0.0 .0.111.1247.8j5.13.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.13.1223...0j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i67k1j0i20i264k 1j0i20i263i264k1j0i20i263k1j0i10k1j0i13k1j0i13i30k 1.0.Bnnlz7GY52M). Among other things, it could happen from worn and/or gunky parts.

streetsmarts
11-07-2017, 08:52 AM
That's called chainsuck (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS696US696&ei=P8YBWtSWFYmWmQG3lLD4Cw&q=fix+chainsuck&oq=fix+chainsuck&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1.110992.112891.0.113517.13.13.0.0.0 .0.111.1247.8j5.13.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.13.1223...0j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i67k1j0i20i264k 1j0i20i263i264k1j0i20i263k1j0i10k1j0i13k1j0i13i30k 1.0.Bnnlz7GY52M). Among other things, it could happen from worn and/or gunky parts.

Thanks Drevil! I was reading about that this morning and not sure.

I feel like I don't ride nearly as much as some of y'all. and come to think of it, I got a new chain and cassette ... a month ago? strange.

PeteD
11-07-2017, 08:54 AM
Dropped your chain, and then kept pedaling.

First solution is to try to not keep pedaling, and shift back into the big ring to see if you can get the chain to jump back onto the chainring. Takes a bit of effort and experience to know if it'll work or you're making the problem worse.

There are several chain drop catchters available out there... I've run the K-Edge on my road bike, but they're not always reliable, and can easily be defeated by worn chains and chainrings, as drdevil pointed out. Usually it's a trailing indicator that you:

1) Need to clean your chain.
2) You might need to replace your chainrings.
3) You might need to replace your chain.
4) You might need to replace your chainrings+chain+cassette.

From the look from your picture, I'd expect at a minimum #1, and #4 being highly probable: Your chainrings look well worn.

streetsmarts
11-07-2017, 09:04 AM
More info:
New chain and cassette 9/13/17 (at about 2200 miles of riding)
Maybe 300 miles since then.
Huh.
Wouldn't the shop look at the chain ring at that time to see if it needed to be changed?

Also, riding in the city - and shifting properly, and dropping the chain - I think I need some lessons re this . I do think part of it is operator error. Will google that later!

Judd
11-07-2017, 09:20 AM
It's probably from all the wattage you're always putting out.

EasyRider
11-07-2017, 09:25 AM
Did it just fall off while you were riding in the smaller chainring -- like the chain climbed up the chainring and fell off? If that happened, I'd say uneven wear on parts.

If it happened when you shifted from the large to small chainring, I'd check the limit screw and see if the derailleur cage is on an angle to the centerline of the bike. Sometimes it's necessary to position it like that to aid shifting, but doing so can also defeat the purpose of the limit screw, especially when shifting from a large chainring (50t) to the small chainring (34t) at speed.

When this happens to me it's usually after I replace a front derailleur cable. Everything is fine in the workstand, but there's usually some on-the-road fine-tuning on the first ride.

Judd
11-07-2017, 09:38 AM
The other thing that I can think of is how you're shifting. If you're holding the shifter down for a long time when shifting, this can cause an overshift and a chain drop.

hozn
11-07-2017, 10:12 AM
Just switch to 1x and you'll never have this happen again. :)

I have run K-Edge chain catchers (and various other chain catchers). What is really terrible is when the chain drops off despite the chain catcher and then you have to loosen the FD bolt just to get the damn chain back on. Yeah, I was serious about 1x; front derailleurs really suck (pun unintended, but I'll take it).

mstone
11-07-2017, 10:19 AM
That looks more like chain drop than chain suck--lower chain looks like it got hooked while loose, rather than having the top surface of the lower chain stuck to the ring. It's usually not impossible to drop a chain shifting from the big ring to the little ring while the chain is on the big cog. The best fix is to avoid that (among other things, it implies cross-chaining before the shift). To make it completely impossible for the chain to come off doing that, the front derailleur cage needs to be far enough outboard that it'll rub sometimes. If it falls off a lot, or while making less dramatic shifts, then I'd check the limit screws, see if the FD is straight, etc. Messed up RD could also affect this, but you should have issues shifting in the rear or at least some nasty noise in that case.

n18
11-07-2017, 12:33 PM
I carry pocket tissues all the time for such an occasion. Like others said, check the limit screws. If they are fine, then the chain could be of incorrect length for the gears that you are using, especially if you changed to a different cassette or chainrings with different number of teeth. In this case, cutting the new chain to the same size as the old one as commonly advised won't work well in this case. There is a wiggle room, but if the chain is too long, it would slip causing it to derail. This online bicycle chain length calculator (http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/chain_length/chainlengthcalc.html) tells you the recommended chain length for the gears that you have now. The only issue with that calculator is that you need to multiply the number of links by 2 to get the correct number. It gives a result like "56 inches or 56 links", the length in inches is correct, but chain links are 0.5" long, so this means 56*2=112 Links.

scoot
11-07-2017, 01:24 PM
I carry pocket tissues all the time for such an occasion.

Also: disposable latex or nitrile gloves

streetsmarts
11-07-2017, 01:55 PM
You all seem to think I know more than I do. Regular commuter bike rider for 1.5 years. Not long. Taken a few very basic bike maintenance classes. (Thanks Phoenix, Spokes, Bike House).

I could learn a thing or two about shifting but basically, in city riding, I start off from stops in one gear (easy) and when I am cruising (like down 11th street ) I may make it a harder gear .

Then, of course, I come to a stop, I shift to an easier gear, while pedaling, before I stop (If possible).

I still can't wrap my brain around which is a bigger gear, smaller ring, etc. - the words to describe what I do.

* But my question stands : Should I try to undo this stuck chain, or take to a bike shop?
Would I have to do anything other than pull the chain, maybe give it some slack ? If I could damage things, which I think I could, I think I'll rush home and then go to a bike shop."

It's been stuck before (friends can attest)- but this time is especially bad.

streetsmarts
11-07-2017, 02:06 PM
[This was supposed to be a reply to easy rider I think. Still learning to use the Forum!]

Hi I don't think we've met (?).
I'm relatively new at this. I know the purpose of the limit screws, and the cables, and have had basic classes in adjusting them (Thanks Phoenix and Bike House) - but I have not replaced a derailleur cable, and I don't know how to make sure the cage is int he right place.
I go to the bike shop to make sure it's good. And I was there last week, maybe, for adjustments to the shifters.
(see, I'm not sure exactly what they did).

It doesn't happen on its own; last night, I was pedaling (not sure what gear), came to a light where I wasn't sure where I was going (Vermont, Q , 11th, maybe) and decided to stop - something like that. Or the chain dropped as I was shifting, and I was in the middle of an intersection, in the dark - and just trying to either pedal or get off the road.

So...

n18
11-07-2017, 02:08 PM
I would say do it yourself, but in a very well let area. Don't try it too hard, just try another method of one doesn't work. I would generally try both peddling backward and pulling the chain at the same time.

Harry Meatmotor
11-07-2017, 02:38 PM
Sometimes the only way to get a chain that's stuck like that one out without scratching the crap out of the chainstay or BB shell, or bending links in the chain, is to remove the drive side crank arm. In a shop, that's a 2 minute job. At home without proper tools, i.e., a crank puller, it's pretty much impossible.

streetsmarts
11-07-2017, 02:52 PM
Sometimes the only way to get a chain that's stuck like that one out without scratching the crap out of the chainstay or BB shell, or bending links in the chain, is to remove the drive side crank arm. In a shop, that's a 2 minute job. At home without proper tools, i.e., a crank puller, it's pretty much impossible.

I was thinking the same thing. So if you see someone drenched and freezing tonight, rushing home and walking the bike to the bike shop - that'll be me. Prep for Freezing Saddles!

Also, note to self - if you get a large bike, and put fenders and a rack on it - no matter what car you own/rent or taxi /rideshare you take - it's not easy to put the bike in it and not easy to transport without messing up the fenders. Little did I know.

So last I night did bus/Metro... which work. But wish I could've done rideshare.

streetsmarts
11-07-2017, 02:57 PM
The other thing that I can think of is how you're shifting. If you're holding the shifter down for a long time when shifting, this can cause an overshift and a chain drop.
Weren't you talking about offering some "learn how to" classes. Like maybe "let's talk about shifting". ......

Emm
11-07-2017, 03:37 PM
Weren't you talking about offering some "learn how to" classes. Like maybe "let's talk about shifting". ......

Somebody gave me this book (https://www.amazon.com/Every-Womans-Guide-Cycling-Everything/dp/0451223047/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1510090445&sr=8-2&keywords=womens+guide+to+cycling) a few years ago. You're welcome to borrow it if you want to read up on some of this stuff (it has a whole section on shifting I found very helpful.) I found it useful overall, although hands-on-lessons are usually even better :)

streetsmarts
11-07-2017, 03:40 PM
Somebody gave me this book (https://www.amazon.com/Every-Womans-Guide-Cycling-Everything/dp/0451223047/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1510090445&sr=8-2&keywords=womens+guide+to+cycling) a few years ago. You're welcome to borrow it if you want to read up on some of this stuff (it has a whole section on shifting I found very helpful.) I found it useful overall, although hands-on-lessons are usually even better :)

Good book. Komorebi lent it to me last year but I didn't get to read much. I still have a lot to learn. Would love to borrow it again. Thanks!

Lt. Dan
11-07-2017, 04:14 PM
Do you have a quick/master link on the chain? If so, you can pop that loose and thread the chain out of there if need be...

DismalScientist
11-07-2017, 04:19 PM
Master link probably won't do it. Try turning the bike upside down and turning the crank to "unwind" as much of the problem as possible so it is clear where the chain is stuck between (likely) the frame and chain ring. Grab the chain where you can get the most leverage and pull like hell. As with most bicycle repairs, violence is the only solution.

streetsmarts
11-07-2017, 04:23 PM
RE whether I have a master link: how would one know this? would one ... ask, when the bike shop puts on a new chain? (learning...learning)

streetsmarts
11-07-2017, 04:27 PM
Master link probably won't do it. Try turning the bike upside down and turning the crank to "unwind" as much of the problem as possible so it is clear where the chain is stuck between (likely) the frame and chain ring. Grab the chain where you can get the most leverage and pull like hell. As with most bicycle repairs, violence is the only solution.

Ahh, Dismal!! Violence!!

bentbike33
11-07-2017, 04:35 PM
RE whether I have a master link: how would one know this? would one ... ask, when the bike shop puts on a new chain? (learning...learning)

A master link is usually a different color than the rest of the chain's outer plates. It will also have 2 elongated holes in the outer plates where the chain pins go through. If the two elongated holes are on the same outer plate, you break the chain by bending the chain so the pins of that link go toward the center to the bigger part of the holes. If the elongated holes are on opposite sides (one on each), then you need a needlenose pliers to squeeze the master link open by sliding the pins to the bigger parts of the holes.

See http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_m.html#masterlink

Judd
11-07-2017, 06:11 PM
Weren't you talking about offering some "learn how to" classes. Like maybe "let's talk about shifting". ......

Yes, Bike University is a real thing in my head, but not a real thing outside of my head.

anomad
11-07-2017, 06:46 PM
RE whether I have a master link: how would one know this? would one ... ask, when the bike shop puts on a new chain? (learning...learning)

Look at what is stamped on your chain, Shimano? Kmc? Sram? If it's not Shimano there's a solid chance you have a link that can be removed without tools. It'll look different than all the other links. Removing and installing a chain is a good skill that you can learn at home with a chain tool and/or knowing how a quick link works. Figure out what you have and spend an hour with it. I'm not in Alexandria for the time being or I'd offer to swing by and help un#uck your chain and give you a few pointers.

Removing the crank (as suggested) or removing the chain are the best options for serious chain suck. Learning to shift comes with experience and will almost eliminate those issues. But even us old guys screw up once in a while. I did it this summer dropping into my triple and shifting in anger. When mountain bike triple groups were fairly new to the scene it happened all the time.

I dig the park tool videos if you have some time to spend on YouTube.

Harry Meatmotor
11-08-2017, 08:20 AM
BITD:

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/vintage-retro-classic/518069d1265319888-when-chainsuck-cured-ringleantichainsuck.jpg

Steve O
11-08-2017, 08:34 AM
Just switch to 1x and you'll never have this happen again. :)

+1.
However, one downside to 1x is that on the rare occasion I still drop my chain (this happens to me if I hit a bump at exactly the moment I'm switching gears and have slightly eased up on pedaling - a few times a year), I'm dead in the water. In the old days when I had a FD, most of the time I could get the chain back on while still riding.

Tania
11-08-2017, 08:47 AM
Also, note to self - if you get a large bike, and put fenders and a rack on it - no matter what car you own/rent or taxi /rideshare you take - it's not easy to put the bike in it and not easy to transport without messing up the fenders. Little did I know.


Truth! I love the fenders on my commuter but they can be occasionally inconvenient.

Tania
11-08-2017, 08:54 AM
Pics of master links:

http://thebicyclechain.com/images/library/site/chain_installation_mstr_03.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Srampowerlink.jpg/300px-Srampowerlink.jpg

http://images.jensonusa.com/large/ch/ch409z19blk_______sing.jpg

Sometimes, that chain is in there and it's not going to come out. It happened to me on a ride and a part time bike mechanic stopped to help me and even HE had issues pulling it free. It turns out in my instance the FD was a little askew causing shifting issues and blocking me from pulling the chain up once it dropped off. This is my only bike that's NOT 1x...

Just take it to the shop and ask them to show you what to do. Most shops are pretty cool and want their customers to learn how to do basic trailside fixes.

drevil
11-08-2017, 09:14 AM
BITD:

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/vintage-retro-classic/518069d1265319888-when-chainsuck-cured-ringleantichainsuck.jpg

Haha, the Ringle Anti-Chainsuck Thing. I used those in the 90s on my bikes that would jam the eff up. Which reminds me, I went singlespeed/fixie exclusively on all my bikes from 2001-2015 because I hated chainsuck and chainslap so much. It wasn't until 1x and clutch derailleurs became commonplace when I went back to gears. That, and achey knees :D

Streetsmarts, the solution is to go fixie. ;)

ian74
11-08-2017, 09:30 AM
I vote go to Bike Shop. It shouldn't keep happening. Explain that it keeps happening, and see if they can find an issue. Ask if you can watch what they do to fix/adjust, or ask them to explain how they did it. Then you are still learning, learning!

hozn
11-08-2017, 09:35 AM
+1.
However, one downside to 1x is that on the rare occasion I still drop my chain (this happens to me if I hit a bump at exactly the moment I'm switching gears and have slightly eased up on pedaling - a few times a year), I'm dead in the water. In the old days when I had a FD, most of the time I could get the chain back on while still riding.

This is true. You have to grab the chain (or use a stick) if it does fall off. I have had my chain fall off when I was using a clutch mtb X9 rear derailleur, but so far I have never experienced a chain falling off with the Rival 1 RD -- but this is with a clutch rear derailleur and a narrow-wide ring and a 1x-specific chain, so definitely doing everything "by the book" there.

streetsmarts
11-08-2017, 05:05 PM
BITD:

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/vintage-retro-classic/518069d1265319888-when-chainsuck-cured-ringleantichainsuck.jpgis that the "don't eat my chain" guard?

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streetsmarts
11-08-2017, 05:12 PM
thank you all so much. I got up early and turned the bike upside down, gave it some slack by pushing on the back derailleur, and after much grease and untangling and pulling... got the chain straightened out and back on. woo hoo.

then I tried various gears and the chain is rubbing on the hangar. I might take it to bike shop for adjusting and learning... and then clean It well this weekend.



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