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View Full Version : Lake Fairfax Park Master Plan Update - Your feedback needed!



FFX_Hinterlands
10-30-2017, 02:28 PM
Lake Fairfax Park is updating its master plan. Send them suggestions on how to make the park better. I'm sure some of you that frequent the park via bike have some suggestions.

My suggestion is a paved or stone dust trail connecting W&OD with the park. Also instead of updating the campground to make it more friendly to large RVs, make it more friendly to bicycle tourists who already flock to the DC area.

Enter your comments on this page.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/parks/plandev/lake-fairfax.htm

huskerdont
10-31-2017, 07:11 AM
Lake Fairfax Park is updating its master plan. Send them suggestions on how to make the park better. I'm sure some of you that frequent the park via bike have some suggestions.

My suggestion is a paved or stone dust trail connecting W&OD with the park. Also instead of updating the campground to make it more friendly to large RVs, make it more friendly to bicycle tourists who already flock to the DC area.

Enter your comments on this page.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/parks/plandev/lake-fairfax.htm

I believe I will comment. I'd like to note that I don't see that there's a way to pave a trail to the W&OD without either paving over trails currently used for mountain biking or paving through wooded parkland adjacent to Colvin Run. (Gravel could work, but portions of the trail are steep, and the gravel would like wash out.) Perhaps that's an okay tradeoff in the mind of some; just pointing out that it is a tradeoff.

FFX_Hinterlands
10-31-2017, 07:41 AM
I believe I will comment. I'd like to note that I don't see that there's a way to pave a trail to the W&OD without either paving over trails currently used for mountain biking or paving through wooded parkland adjacent to Colvin Run. (Gravel could work, but portions of the trail are steep, and the gravel would like wash out.) Perhaps that's an okay tradeoff in the mind of some; just pointing out that it is a tradeoff.

I would discourage you from not suggesting something you'd like to see based on your understanding of what is possible. Engineers can figure stuff out if it's a priority. Sorry just my Product Management background coming out there..

There are already some wide stone dust trails/fire roads in the park. Why not try to connect them to get park access?

Tom

Sunyata
10-31-2017, 07:43 AM
My suggestion is a paved or stone dust trail connecting W&OD with the park.

There are already several connections from the W&OD to the park. Luckily, none of them are paved. Hopefully it stays that way.

huskerdont
10-31-2017, 08:12 AM
I would discourage you from not suggesting something you'd like to see based on your understanding of what is possible. Engineers can figure stuff out if it's a priority. Sorry just my Product Management background coming out there..

Tom

I did not say I even wanted a paved or stone connection to the W&OD. That's something that some may want, and that's fine. I merely wanted to point out the probable loss of at least a portion of the mountain biking trails, because if anyone is going to comment, I think they should be aware of that issue, no matter which side of the fence they might fall on.

Portions of the CCT have been paved that previously were not. Whether that is good or bad can be debated. I personally prefer running and hiking on unpaved trails and lament the paving, but that's just me and my use; if folks are looking for a transportation corridor, they may want the trail paved, and that's fine for their use.


There are already some wide stone dust trails/fire roads in the park. Why not try to connect them to get park access?

I had been looking at the map earlier to try to determine the newish neighborhood built adjacent to the park, and if that could be linked up. But it looks like almost any solution would end up routing riders along Hunter Mill Road. Dressage Rd. could avoid that, but is too far into the park to avoid losing trails.

lordofthemark
10-31-2017, 08:49 AM
I did not say I even wanted a paved or stone connection to the W&OD. That's something that some may want, and that's fine. I merely wanted to point out the probable loss of at least a portion of the mountain biking trails, because if anyone is going to comment, I think they should be aware of that issue, no matter which side of the fence they might fall on.

Portions of the CCT have been paved that previously were not. Whether that is good or bad can be debated. I personally prefer running and hiking on unpaved trails and lament the paving, but that's just me and my use; if folks are looking for a transportation corridor, they may want the trail paved, and that's fine for their use.



I had been looking at the map earlier to try to determine the newish neighborhood built adjacent to the park, and if that could be linked up. But it looks like almost any solution would end up routing riders along Hunter Mill Road. Dressage Rd. could avoid that, but is too far into the park to avoid losing trails.

I have no opinion on Lake Fairfax and will not be commenting on it. Just wanted to point out that when we lived in Annandale, I did use the GCCCT as a through route, mostly for recreation, though I also used it to ride to the FABB Bike summit at GMU. And POTM rode to her part time job at Olam Tikvah on the GCCCT. So I appreciated the paved parts - though neither of us used the section in Wakefield park for transportation. Of course if there were alternative comfortable EW routes in that part of Fairfax, GCCT would be less tempting as a biking route (except for those seeking unpaved)

huskerdont
10-31-2017, 08:56 AM
I have no opinion on Lake Fairfax and will not be commenting on it. Just wanted to point out that when we lived in Annandale, I did use the GCCCT as a through route, mostly for recreation, though I also used it to ride to the FABB Bike summit at GMU. And POTM rode to her part time job at Olam Tikvah on the GCCCT. So I appreciated the paved parts - though neither of us used the section in Wakefield park for transportation. Of course if there were alternative comfortable EW routes in that part of Fairfax, GCCT would be less tempting as a biking route (except for those seeking unpaved)

I've no problem with this, of course. People will differ on whether they want trails paved or not depending on their uses and other factors, as is their right.

For my part, I did comment that I felt the natural areas of LFP were an asset that should be maintained with as little development or paving as possible.

jabberwocky
10-31-2017, 09:47 AM
Yeah, I'm not entirely happy about the paving of the CCT, but I do understand it (major cycle-friendly routes north to south through that part of Fairfax are few and far between, so that corridor does serve an important need for all cyclists). And for the most part, what was paved wasn't a serious loss singletrack wise.

Lake Fairfax is a different beast. Connecting it to the W&OD via paving doesn't really serve a major commuting/utility need. I guess the argument is "its easier to ride a bike into the park", but I don't see the point (since probably 99% of the people riding bikes at lake fairfax are MTBers in the first place, so its not like they need or want a paved connection to the W&OD). And connecting into the park doesn't get you anywhere useful (you can exit onto Hunters Mill or Baron Cameron, neither of which are remotely bike friendly).

FFX_Hinterlands
10-31-2017, 10:32 AM
Lake Fairfax is a different beast. Connecting it to the W&OD via paving doesn't really serve a major commuting/utility need. I guess the argument is "its easier to ride a bike into the park", but I don't see the point (since probably 99% of the people riding bikes at lake fairfax are MTBers in the first place, so its not like they need or want a paved connection to the W&OD). And connecting into the park doesn't get you anywhere useful (you can exit onto Hunters Mill or Baron Cameron, neither of which are remotely bike friendly).

Oh, I see your logic. Yeah, I'm thinking about getting bike tourists and families from the W&OD up to the campground. The current singletrack trail near the W&OD is not well marked nor promoted from what I can tell.

Paved/unpaved aside, if there are things that could make the park better for (any kinds of) cyclists, now would also be a good time to ask. They responded the next day to my comment with a "thanks."

jabberwocky
10-31-2017, 12:13 PM
Oh, I see your logic. Yeah, I'm thinking about getting bike tourists and families from the W&OD up to the campground. The current singletrack trail near the W&OD is not well marked nor promoted from what I can tell.

Gotcha. I do see that. I think the issue is that the closest W&OD connection (and favorite parking spot of many people riding the singletrack) isn't actually park property; the Ice Rink lot is private property, and I believe they have resisted a kiosk there in the past. Thats why there is a kiosk on the trail at the bottom of the initial hill from the lot: thats the edge of actual park property. But that doesn't help people looking to get into the park from the W&OD.

n18
10-31-2017, 03:37 PM
Gotcha. I do see that. I think the issue is that the closest W&OD connection (and favorite parking spot of many people riding the singletrack) isn't actually park property; the Ice Rink lot is private property, and I believe they have resisted a kiosk there in the past. Thats why there is a kiosk on the trail at the bottom of the initial hill from the lot: thats the edge of actual park property. But that doesn't help people looking to get into the park from the W&OD.
Google maps, when you zoom in too close, shows property boundaries based on public records. It shows that SkateQuest has its own parking lot, and the parking lot (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lake+Fairfax+Mountain+Bike+Parking/@38.9498007,-77.3314825,18.13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b649d2bb9589bf:0x32884840222eb 0cb!8m2!3d38.950273!4d-77.3314548!5m1!1e3) to its North("Lake Fairfax Mountain Bike Parking" on Google maps) as a separate property. Here is a link (http://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/maps/mapadv.aspx) to Fairfax county website which shows maps of property boundaries, but it's slower than Google, but shows property owner. You need to zoom in to see property boundaries, then click on "i" icon on the toolbar to see the real estate company that owns the property. It shows that the property is owned by Breckenridge, LLC, and that it's "Vacant land", while the company that owns where SkateQuest resides is Novus, LLC.

jabberwocky
10-31-2017, 05:28 PM
Google maps, when you zoom in too close, shows property boundaries based on public records. It shows that SkateQuest has its own parking lot, and the parking lot (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lake+Fairfax+Mountain+Bike+Parking/@38.9498007,-77.3314825,18.13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b649d2bb9589bf:0x32884840222eb 0cb!8m2!3d38.950273!4d-77.3314548!5m1!1e3) to its North("Lake Fairfax Mountain Bike Parking" on Google maps) as a separate property. Here is a link (http://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/maps/mapadv.aspx) to Fairfax county website which shows maps of property boundaries, but it's slower than Google, but shows property owner. You need to zoom in to see property boundaries, then click on "i" icon on the toolbar to see the real estate company that owns the property. It shows that the property is owned by Breckenridge, LLC, and that it's "Vacant land", while the company that owns where SkateQuest resides is Novus, LLC.
My recollection on this is hazy (I was the MORE liaison at Lake Fairfax many, many moons ago). I do remember that when the park was installing kiosks with the (largely speculative, at the time) maps, they did want to put one at the trailhead there at the ice rink lot but the property owners opposed it. Thats why the first kiosk from that direction is on the trail down the hill a bit. Its right at the edge of the park boundary.

I've often wondered whats going to happen when that property is inevitably developed. I have no idea of the private properties have changed hands or if some sort of easement has been established in the years since. It wouldn't surprise me though if people wanting to ride at Lake Fairfax have to drive into the park proper in the next 5-10 years.

All incidental to the discussion at hand (establishing a paved connection to the W&OD), but I think it does help explain why there isn't a more clearly marked path into the park.

Sunyata
11-01-2017, 07:19 AM
My recollection on this is hazy (I was the MORE liaison at Lake Fairfax many, many moons ago). I do remember that when the park was installing kiosks with the (largely speculative, at the time) maps, they did want to put one at the trailhead there at the ice rink lot but the property owners opposed it. Thats why the first kiosk from that direction is on the trail down the hill a bit. Its right at the edge of the park boundary.

I've often wondered whats going to happen when that property is inevitably developed. I have no idea of the private properties have changed hands or if some sort of easement has been established in the years since. It wouldn't surprise me though if people wanting to ride at Lake Fairfax have to drive into the park proper in the next 5-10 years.

All incidental to the discussion at hand (establishing a paved connection to the W&OD), but I think it does help explain why there isn't a more clearly marked path into the park.

Rumour has it that the current owner of the north section of the parking lot (not SkateQuest) is looking to develop the land. The current trail liaisons (Tony and Frank) may have more up to date information, but this coming year may be the last year that we can use the lot for parking and trail access. :(

FFX_Hinterlands
11-01-2017, 07:38 AM
You need to let the FFX DPZ folks know that you want to preserve access to the trail. They'll work with the developer as long as citizens keep pressure on the process. You can also contact the District Supervisor (Hunter Mill). Trails and Streams Committee would also be a good point of contact to help.